Notable open & development class racers....

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Stephen Ditmore, Nov 20, 2006.

  1. Stephen Ditmore
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    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    I'm starting this thread at the suggestion of Vega. What are the most interesing boats, and who are the most interesting designers, competing in open & development class racing? The Francophones have an edge in reporting on the classes most closely followed in France. My beat will be North America. My first area of interest is hull shape, but that shouldn't stop others form exploring rig, appendages, structural engineering & weight distribution, etc.

    Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:

    Tim Kernan is an interesting young designer on the U.S West Coast. In the January/February issue of Sailing World, Kernan is quoted saying of his ULDB Peligroso:

    At true wind angles of 150 and 135 and a heel angle of between 10 and 15 degrees, the boat develops a step, and you can feel it. The hull is different, and there were people who saw it in the shop and said, 'I don't think it will work,' but the results have been a good vindication.
    Does anyone know what Kernan is referring to? Does anyone have photos of the boat's underbody? http://www.waterplane.com/design_dencho70.html

    In the same issue of Sailing World is a rundown of some Mini 6.5 designs. One is described as a JP Magnan design, and another as a Seb Magnan design. Are these two related designers? Do they live in France or Canada? How have their boats, and each of the others described in the article (including one by Rod Jonstone) performed? What are the distinguishing features of each?

    Another west coast ULDB I'd like to hear more about is Tom Wylie's Jelik: http://www.schoonercreek.com/new_const/modern_sail/Jelik/Jelik.jpg

    On the subject of Wylie, would someone like to crank up their VPP and run a fictitious race between a Wyliecat 44 and a Coutts 44? Who wins? Why?
    http://www.wyliecat.com/yachts/models/wyliecat_44.html
    http://www.rc44.com/
    http://www.v1-tech.com/wp-content/files/File/RC44.pdf

    I wish someone had gone to Finot for a Volvo 70 design. Anyone with me in thinking a Finot Volvo 70 might have given ABN-Amro some competition?

    I wonder if there's much contact between aspiring French designers and educational institutions, hydro labs, and builders in or near Quebec.
    There are great things happening at http://www.etsmtl.ca/ such as http://www.mec.etsmtl.ca/club/omer/.
    At http://www.proboat-digital.com/proboat/200606/ you can read about an interesting French-Canadian boatbuilder (page 92).
    Canada has several major towing tanks & hydro labs: http://iot-ito.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/

    http://www.kus.hr/English/metoda.html is apparently a program for designing wide hulls with symmetrical heeled waterlines. Are any boats being designed & built using this software? Is the developer someone known to designers of open & development class racers?
     
  2. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Something on JELIK

    As you probably know, JELIK was lost:

    January 13, 2003 - South China Sea

    "Rumors of the loss of Jelik are true," reports Nancy Rander of Schooner Creek Boat Works in Portland. "Jelik, the sleek 77-ft racer designed by Tom Wylie and built by us at Schooner Creek Boat Works for Hong Kong yachtsmen Frank Pong, was lost December 18. We at Schooner Creek were told that while returning from the Philippines after first to finish and corrected time victories in the Hong Kong to Manila Race, Jelik's keel failed while 400 miles out, and she turned turtle. All seven crew were picked up by a Malaysian tanker, none the worse for the experience.

    "As it turns out, the keel failed at the top hull flange attachment. This however, was not the original keel that had been designed by Wylie and built by Schooner Creek. Jelik has been undergoing a series of modifications, including new rigs, new keel, and new rudders. Her owner has enjoyed not only racing, but also experimenting with design and performance improvements.

    "It was hoped that tugs could be sent to salvage Jelik, but as she closed the coast and ransacking became a possibility, the salvage attempts were abandoned. The loss of Jelik is sad for all who have known and enjoyed her."

    And probably you also know this:
    http://www.schoonercreek.com/new_const/modern_sail/Jelik/1998_professional_boatbuilder.pdf

    Cheers
     

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  3. Stephen Ditmore
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    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    I have read the Professional BoatBuilder article, but no, I didn't realize Jelik was lost. Thank G-d no one was hurt.

    I worked for Sparkman & Stephens briefly, just after the launching of Sleighride: http://www.sparkmanstephens.com/design/sleighride_pic.html. While I had no hand in the design, I approve of the way it was engineered. The keel was held on by a large diam. SS shaft running through it transversely in the bottom of the boat. The other keelbolts were there mainly to locate/orient the keel. I'm not clear exactly what happened in Jelik's case.... but I'm of the opinion that there are too many keel failures.

    Having said that, Jelik was designed, built, raced, was modified, and raced again. What have we learned from the Jelik experience?

    Thanks for bringing me up-to-date, Guillermo.
     
  4. Vega
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    Vega Senior Member

    As promised...;)
    My preferred racing boat is one that is not yet on the water:) : It's Brit Air and it will be Launched in June 2007.

    It is an open 60 designed for the solo Vendee Globe and has some innovative characteristics: The very sheltered cockpit and the huge quantity of solar panels incorporated in the superstructure (energy for the canting-keel). The designer is Groupe finot (Finot-Conq).


    "Jean-Marie Finot: "BRIT AIR is the product of our past experiences. She is going to be a powerful and stable boat. It’s rather like the idea behind Geodis, the winner of the third Vendée Globe. However, she was designed by integrating the specifications of today’s boats, with movable appendages."
    The Finot Group designed this boat around the 60-footers they had already successfully designed, (4 wins in the 5 Vendée Globe races, 3 wins in the BOC). « We began to develop this style of boat with Alain Gautier in 1990. As these boats have evolved, we have modified our designs accordingly, adapting them to Armel Le Cléac’h’s specific requirements concerning his use of the boat. The work was a joint project between Armel and Gaël Le Cléac’h (boat captain), Pascal Conq, David de Prémorel and Erwan Gourdon to define the deck structure and layout and the most suitable cockpit, the best sail design, and internal layout corresponding to his personal needs. What they were aiming for, in particular Armel, was to obtain something simple, which would offer reliability, a light touch and ease of handling. Our common goal was to finish up with a reliable, sturdy and fast boat, enabling the racer and the boat to return safely to port, while at the same time enjoying themselves to the full.»


    "Like all the racing prototypes built by Multiplast, BRIT AIR will be made of a sandwich of carbon composite with a honeycomb core (Nomex) heated in the oven, using female carbon moulds, in order to ensure perfect homogeneity of the whole section during the baking process. This manufacturing process based around skills developed by Multiplast, is known around the world in ocean racing circles and in the industrial sector."

    http://www.vendeeglobe.org/uk/actu/5141.html

    http://www.multiplast-yachts.com/news/index.cfm?action=news&ID_Actu=123&NumLangue=2

    http://www.finot.com/
     

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  5. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Radical 40 / Andy Dovell

    Here is a new,very cutting edge fourty footer. One of the most innovative features of this boat are the wings on the canting keel bulb-an idea pioneered by Mr. Dovell quite sometime ago on Atomic and smaller boats. The advantage is no forward cannard or dual fwd daggerboards.
    NICE - Sailing Anarchy Forums
    Address:http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43991
     
  6. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    What about the Black Sea 40, designed by our fellow poster Stephen Baker?
    http://members.aol.com/Saildesign/private/scbweb/bs40.htm
    From there:
    "....His time from Charleston to Cape Town in the first leg set a new 40-foot record of just over 44 days, only 4 days slower than the leading 50-footer. During this time, he also achieved the longest day's run for a class II boat in this race of 239 miles, an average of almost 10 knots. This record was achieved while Viktor spent 22 hours down below recovering from surgery to his elbow performed following e-mailed instructions from the race doctor. There was no power for autopilots, so the boat was literally sailing herself. This sort of control and balance is exactly what the boat was designed for."

    Cheers
     

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  7. Vega
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    Vega Senior Member

    Very nice boat. In the site you provide they have some plans of the boat.

    This one should be in the "Most beautiful boat" thread:p

    Regarding hull shape, the shape of this one is necessarily very influenced by the rules under he would be competitive, and according with the designer, a lot of them: “The DC 70 was designed to race competitively under PHRF, IRC, and Americap”.

    The hull shape of the open 60’s is very different. They are optimized to go downwind. I think that a more generalist international rule is needed, something in the lines of the Open 60’s rule. Several sizes, a limit of draft, of bulb height, a minimum AVS and little more. This would provide probably different approaches and different hulls, all searching for absolute performance and not performance under some very strict and limiting rule.
     

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  8. Crag Cay
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    Crag Cay Senior Member

    I am not suprised that Frank Pong had made several modifications to that particular Jelik. Even twenty five years ago, Frank had one of the top big IOR boats, at a time when the RHKYC was a major player in offshore sailing. Although not a memeber of the club's team (La Pantera, Uin na Mara, Vanguard) that finished as the third 'country' (out of 19) in the '79 Admirals Cup, beating him (occaisionally) was a major scalp.

    He was the first person I had ever seen do a 'hull and keel' transplant, instead of simply ordering a new boat. In about 80 / 81 he had Tony Castro (IIRC) put a new hull and keel under his original deck and rig. He claimed this was so the crew remained familiar with the layout, but he also knew that the more extreme late 70's era big IOR boats were going to be worthless once the implications of the Fastnet disaster sunk home. In fact one of Singapore's team boats lay in the marina semi abandoned for months with everything below like on the Marie Celeste, after the crew stormed off her in disgust at her 'sailing manners'.

    What happened to those days? Nineteen different countries at an offshore sailing event.
     
  9. SailDesign
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    SailDesign Old Phart! Stay upwind..

    Guillermo,
    Thanks for the air-time. I have always loved that deisgn, and am happy to say that the boat Viktor sailed in the Aground Alone has gone on to produce the fastest Scandinavian solo around the world non-stop (Jan Moeller of Denmark as "3M Innovation") and won the last OSTAR (or whatever it is called now) in its class as "Hayai" in the able hands of Nico Budel, the oldest skipper in the class as far as I know.
    There is a sister-ship in Jamestown hoping to get back in the water soon. I have my fingers crossed...
    Steve
     
  10. Stephen Ditmore
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    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    I agree that ULDB 70s and Open 60s are different, but both are downwind oriented, both are different from a conventional IRC or IMS boat, and in general, both have hulls that are less dictated by the rules than by the need for speed. I would suggest that the real difference is the fact that the Open 60 rule is focused on limiting length, while the ULDB 70 Association, I suspect, places greater emphasis on sail area restriction.

    I'm going to try to get more info from the ULDB 70 Association in order to clarify. 'Round the bouys in the San Francisco Bay Big Boat Series, Peligroso has generally lost on handicap to a Mark Mills designed DK46, which has a much higher displ/length ratio. The ULDB 70s are optimized for the Transpac and other downwind, offshore events.

    Perhaps this sheds some light on the subject: http://www.vgyd.com/designing_transpac.html
     
  11. Vega
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    Vega Senior Member

    The DK46 is a more conventional boat however that boat(IRC) have done very well on hanicap:

    "The Round the Island Race, with over 1600 entrants one of the worlds most popular, attracts the largest and the smallest yachts for a 60 mile course around the Isle of Wight. With windspeeds shifting between 0 and 12 knots over the 8 hour race the two DK 46’s rose to the top to beat some of the best known racing yachts in the world: the 100’ canting keeler Maximus, the Fastnet winner Nokia Enigma, and the Sydney-Hobart winner Aera as well as trans-Atlantic racers Leopard and Sojana".

    But I am not sure this means anything about hull shape.

    I would look at length of the boat and a limit on draft. The sail area will be in proportion with the RM that the boat can generate no mater how.

    A interesting comparison, regarding hull shape would be a comparison of the performance of the new 40DK (IRC) with a 40 class boat, the cruising and racing versions and the Transpac 41xsturbo.

    The hulls are very diferent.;)

    http://www.vgyd.com/41xs_drawingboard.html

    http://www.dkyachts.com/p3_dknews.htm

    http://www.pogostructures.com/?m=4&s=72&l=en

    http://www.class40.com/index.php?section=14

    http://www.dkyachts.com/p2_boatrange.htm
     

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  12. Stephen Ditmore
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    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    O.K. Vega, I accept that IRC effects hull shape (and that Mark Mills knows how to design an IRC boat). But Peligroso and the other ULDB 70s ARE downwind oriented boats. I think the more relevant comparison might be an Open 50 with a Transpac 52 (both of which I would count as development classes for the purpose of this thread).

    Or, if you prefer stick to boats in the 40 foot range, specs on the new Reighel Pugh Grand Prix 42 can be found here: http://www.reichel-pugh.com/Grand_Prix_42_Brochure.pdf
    It has a displacement of 4,200 kg on a waterline of 12.2 m, much different from the DK 40's 6500 kg on a 10.4m waterline. If Pelegroso's hull shape innovation is relevant to Transpac 52s and Grand Prix 42s, then it seems to me it's relevant to this discussion. And do we know it's not relevant for the open classes as well? Whatever it is, though, it's not apparent from the sections in the published drawing, is it?

    What about the stern wave supression winglets on rudders first seen on Paul Bieker's I-14s. Are any of the offshore classes trying them? Peter Van Oossannen seems to be claiming intellectual property rights to something similar...
     
  13. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

  14. Vega
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    Vega Senior Member

    It is a boat designed by Martin DEFLINE. The guy is only 30 years old and looks like a kid, but full of talent. I think you are going to like his designs.

    I am following with interest is work. The cruising boats (Tonga) with two folding keels are amazing, but I have never seen a test of one.

    Regarding the smaller models, they have been praised by the French Press.

    Stephen, look at this 50 open...it may work.

    http://www.defline.com/architecte-naval/architecte-naval.htm

    http://www.defline.com/architecte-naval/gamme/defline/course.htm
     

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  15. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Thanks, Vega! I referenced your info on the 90-110° thread under "Stability" as well.
     
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