NOOB with many questions

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Bazzgurl26, May 20, 2009.

  1. Bazzgurl26
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Portland, Oregon

    Bazzgurl26 Junior Member

    Hey guys,

    Hoping I can get some good insight from you all.
    My husband and I just bought our first boat. Its a major fixer upper, But I hope a fun project. Its a 1963 Brunswick, 16' fiberglass boat. It has the original 50hp Johnson motor on it as well as a 60's 5.5hp kicker. I want to just get a new motor all together but the Hubby wants to see if he can fix the motor (Rolls eyes)

    We want to completely gut the boat and start from scratch. New flooring with marine carpet, Paint (current hull is a chalky tan color no shine, basically dead!) New steering wheel, throttle body, back to back seats as well as a live well and maybe storage.

    My question is.. where do we start? What gets done first? I have never owned a boat, although I was side by side with my dad on his growing up.

    My biggest concern is painting it. Do we just do some light sanding, some primer and some marine grade paint or what?

    Sorry for all the questions. Just a little overwelmed with the idea of all this work. :confused:
     
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Hi, welcome on board.

    Some pictures would be helpful to get a better insight.
    Regards
    Richard
     
  3. Bazzgurl26
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Portland, Oregon

    Bazzgurl26 Junior Member

    ok good figured it out. lol

    [​IMG]

    I am in the process of adding more pics to my computer. I will post some close up pictures of it.
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I wouldn't gut it, unless you need repairs, like replacing soles, stringers, transom, etc. If you haven't done this sort of work before, it's not pleasant and there's no "Zen" to be found in it. Maybe I wasn't forceful enough, if you'd like to itch yourself to sleep, then wake up, just to find the itch again, then wash the bed sheets just to find the itch is now in the other things you've washed that day, then I'd say go for it. Okay, that's better.

    There are lots of previous threads on this site about a multitude of different tasks, repairs, subjects, etc. You'll likely need to review many of them as you progress.

    Carpet in a boat is a very quick way to cause trouble. Regardless of how well you apply it (glue), moisture gets trapped between it and the sole (the thing you stand on). This makes for a perfect environment for several kinds of little beasties to live, like mold, mildew, wood rot, etc.

    Fixing antique engines can be rewarding, but they still are what they are, noisy, covered in oil, smoky, leaky monsters lurking on the transom. Rebuilding it will usually not solve fundamental issues too, like points ignition, lousy electrical output, crappy carb, etc. It might be wiser to find an engine where parts are more readily available, that is more reliable, uses less oil, offers more power, less noise, etc.

    Painting is usually the very last thing you do. It's a sin to ding up a new paint job, because you've got a bunch of other work going on inside and around the boat. Once the major repairs and equipment is installed, then consider painting.

    The first thing you need to do is access what you "have" to do, just to get it going. This generally means the structure. I first check the transom and soles to see if they're soft or mushy in spots, which indicates rot.

    If this checks out, then move onto things the boat should have, like a splash well, which boats from that era sometimes didn't.

    Check out the condition of anything attached to the boat, like tanks, cleats, lights, etc.

    If you're a reasonable person, you've got an ever growing list of stuff to do, change, upgrade or fix. With this list, you can establish priorities and get an idea of how much you'll need to do, how much needs to be hired out, how much it's going to cost, etc.

    With any luck, you'll wake up and it'll all be a dream and the carport is just as empty, as it was when you feel asleep. If not a cold shower, within arm's reach of the toilet, so you can drop Ben Franklin's into it and flush.

    Please realize I'm being slightly (only slightly) irreverent about used boat ownership, but you do need to know what BOAT really stands for; Bring Over Another Twenty. This is something you'll quickly notice and that these twenties seem to float away from your purse, in 5 pack increments or bigger most of the time.

    In any case, welcome aboard, we feel your pain (misery loves company you know), have a look at the archived threads and smack your husband in the back of the head for dragging you into this. Okay, maybe you both are equally "into it", but a good swat in his hat holder can be down payment for his next "great idea" and it'll make you feel better. You can tell him it was for medicinal reasons.:rolleyes: :D :D :D:rolleyes:
     
  5. Bazzgurl26
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Portland, Oregon

    Bazzgurl26 Junior Member

    Thanks Par!

    I appreciate the response.

    I have slapped My dear husband many a times. (only kidding of course)

    The Boat: Is pretty much already gutted! The throttle body is not attached, niether is the steering cable, the one seat that is in the boat is an old mildewed back to back POS that is going to the dump this weekend. I was wrong when I said the floor was wood. It is fiberglass, but for some odd reason there was this small piece of plywood on the floor which was rotted. We removed that last night and found a small bubble in the fiberglass. I dont know how to explain it... its still earlier and I haven't had my coffee.
    The Transom is fine from what we can see but I think we might have someone more experianced come look at it. My biggest concern right now is that bubble we found in the fiberglass which I am assuming is from water damage.

    The previous owner never had it covered so it just sat in the rain. Which is dumb cause it rains 300 days a year in Oregon.

    Like most of our "Projects" it looks like I am taking the lead on this.... AGAIN. Which is a good thing I found this forum!
    Why he likes to start something and lose interest so quickly is beyond me. Im too reved up now, I say lets get this project started!
     
  6. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The bubble was likely there from the factory. It happens. Grind it down, then seal the area with a few coats of epoxy.

    The sole looks like 'glass, but it's actually plywood, covered in 'glass. The transom is the same deal, plus there will likely be several longitudinal stringers below the sole, also covered in 'glass but probably solid lumber.

    You should have someone who knows boats have a look see. Not someone who owns a boat, as they're about as bad as everyone else and eventually bring their boat to people like me to fix, because they're so nautically clueless. There's nothing wrong with this, most folks are this way, so we don't hold it against them (okay, maybe we do, but they have to be nice and preferably offer a beer and talk nice to us). A person that works on boats is what you're looking for. In your area there will be dozens of shops and weird guys like me (we're all very good looking, well educated and have perfect kids).

    A quick check of the transom looks for cracks and core rot. Cracks are easy enough to see, most will not be all the way through the laminate. Now with the motor in the up position, lift on the lower leg, against the stop. Look at the mounting clamp and the lower mounting bolts, where they enter the transom. Is there any movement, any puckers, dents or deformation? If so, remove one of the bolts (no the engine will not fall off and smash your foot) and examine the inside of the hole. Maybe your husband should do this as he'll be more comfortable with what may possibly be inside the hole. Stick a finger in the hole and feel around. It should be rock solid, dry and clean. I'm guessing it's not and the inside is wet, mushy, smelly and gooey. These would be indications of a rotten transom core (the plywood I mentioned).

    To check the sole, walk around inside her. If you're a dainty build, get Bubba, I mean your husband to do it. Walk around inside the boat looking for soft spots, which you'll feel under foot. This is indicative of rot in the sole. Both transom and sole rot are quite common on a boat like that, especially that age. The stringers under the sole may well be shot too, but you will not know for sure until you rip out the sole.

    All of this is repairable, but the question you have to ask is, 'do I really want to do this on a nearly half a century old boat of no particular significance.' My basic point is, with very little money in the current market, you can find very nice examples of boats, that don't need much more then a paint job and a tune up. I just picked up an 23 year old, 18' bow rider, with an 140 HP outdrive and decent trailer for $500. The guy was hurting for cash and he cried when I took it out of his driveway. After an afternoon of checking, cleaning and tossing some tune-up parts into the engine, some fresh gas and a new battery, started it right up. It needs a starboard tilt/trim hydraulic hose, new water pump impeller, a good buffing to bring back the gel coat and I'll sell it for considerably more then What I have in it, which is a whole lot easier then rebuilding, stringers, soles, transoms, itching for a week and waiting for the knot on the back of your husband's head to go down, so you can swat him again.
     
  7. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Location: Ontario

    marshmat Senior Member

    Hi Bazzgurl,

    Our good friend PAR may be a bit irreverent at times, but he's also usually right. Which is why we keep him around :)

    As has been pointed out, the first thing to do is to start poking at the structure and figure out what (if anything) is rotting or disintegrating. Anything that feels soft, squishy, or overly flexible, or sounds like it's full of mush when you tap it with a hammer, is a candidate for further inspection. Unfortunately, this means crawling around in the bilge with a flashlight.

    Odds are the sole isn't solid fibreglass- more likely it is fibreglass-coated plywood. The resins they used back in the '60s didn't get along with wood all that well, so some rot, delamination and bubbling in areas where wood is covered with fibreglass are quite likely. Modern epoxy is a lot better, and you'll go through a few hundred dollars worth of the stuff if there's any significant work to be done on the hull.

    Carpet is for trailer bunks, not for use on board ship. It traps water (thus encouraging rot and mildew), traps dirt, holds smells (like fish guts), and is hard to clean. For all this, it offers virtually no benefits whatsoever in a boat. If there must be carpet, it should be of the "snap-in" rug type seen in some fancy modern powerboats, so that you can take it out and dry it every few days.

    The engine..... let's just say, while your husband fiddles with it, you might want to browse the classified ads for a used '90s or '00s motor of about the same size. Whatever fuel and electrical systems are associated with it are likely beyond repair after 46 years and will probably need to be replaced with modern, safe ones.

    Other things necessary to get it running:

    - It sounds like you'll have to replace or rebuild the steering and shift/throttle systems

    - Odds are the bilge pump (if any) is shot. The teacup-sized "500 gph" (actually puts out ~250 in typical use) pump seen in bargain-bin stores can't even keep up with a garden hose, let alone a broken drain plug or livewell through-hull fitting. As a rule of thumb: 1000 gph of rated capacity per 10 feet of boat, split among at least two separate pumps.

    -You'll need nav lights (red/green on the bow, and a white one on a pole high enough to clear your heads), this is pretty straightforward.

    And don't forget to save some money for basic safety gear: lifejackets, an anchor, paddles, a life ring (or at least a buoyant heaving line), whistle or horn, and all that jazz.
     
  8. Bazzgurl26
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Portland, Oregon

    Bazzgurl26 Junior Member

    WOW this is a whole new language for me. I need a boat owners guide for idiots and then a boat owners guide for women for me.. ha ha

    I got a 30 pack of beer waiting in the garage. Come on over! (wish it were that easy)

    Im gonna take some pics of the inside of the boat and some closer up so I can give you a better Idea as too what I am dealing with.

    I might have to trade my husband in for a new boat......
     
  9. Bazzgurl26
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Portland, Oregon

    Bazzgurl26 Junior Member

    Ok one more thing.... Knock me up side the head if I sound dumb too...

    So instead of carpet which I am getting is a major NO NO. What about some type of non skid paint? Here is the funny part.. Like the Rhino liner for truck beds?? do they have this for boats?

    Ok smack away!
     
  10. Lt. Holden
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: Western Massachusetts

    Lt. Holden Senior Member

    Bazz,

    Several people here have used RhinoLiner (or equivalent) to line hulls; especially aluminum boats. But it is a little early in the money flush for that discussion. When and if, you decide to get to that point several here can advise on that topic. As the more senior members have advised, let's see where you are, where you want to go (I wasn't lost 'till I looked at the friggin' map) and what it will take to get there. Upload as many meaningful (with your captioned comments & questions) photos as you can and you can receive as much or as little guidance as you desire or can stand.
    Best regards,

    John
     
  11. Bazzgurl26
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Portland, Oregon

    Bazzgurl26 Junior Member

    ok so I found another problem... When I was moving the POS seat that was in the boat over I found a crack in the sole (did I get that right?) its not huge but the plywood is clearly visable and very wet! What does this mean in terms of repairs?

    [​IMG]

    Not gonna lie when I say I am getting a wee bit discouraged but I am not ready to give up yet.
     
  12. Bazzgurl26
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Portland, Oregon

    Bazzgurl26 Junior Member

    John, Thanks for the Imput! Im trying to get some pics together of the problem areas on the boat. My camera is dead so I am using my cell to snap some pics.

    I see your in MA.. sox fan by chance?? Born and raised a Redsox fan!
     
  13. Bazzgurl26
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Portland, Oregon

    Bazzgurl26 Junior Member

    Here are some other pics of areas I want to fix and improve on.

    I have finally convinced the old man to just look into getting a newer used motor. Saw one on Craigslist today that I think we might go look at. I just dont want to invest anymore money into this boat until I know the full extent of all the damage and work to be done.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. alan white
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: maine

    alan white Senior Member

    I have nothing to say except I want to congratulate you on the use of the word, "sole". Noobs don't usually switch to the word sole for at least six months, if at all. You bravely mouthed it in a mere day. The word, "floor" means transverse frame down in the bilge. You won't get to use it because your boat has none, but I've got another word for you to wedge into those newly nautical sentences. It's "deadrise" which is the steepness of angle from chine to centerline on the bottom of the hull, especially at the stern.
    The word is really cool because it scares small kids, particularly ones who have transoms over their bedroom doors.
    "Goodnight children. Beware the deadrise tonight at the transom! Sleep well!"
    Might as well have served them a pot of coffee.
     

  15. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    Tap all over that transom for a dull thud sound using a wooden handle of a hammer or tool. Around bolts, drains, any place where there's a discontinuity in the glass. Cracks, bulging, discoloration. Eventually, if there's no serious water ingress, it's wise to remove all of those potential leak sources and rebed them with fresh sealant. The transom is usually the most serious trouble area on a boat of that vintasge, followed by stringers. If it's okay you're over a serious hump. Usually it's filled with two layers of thick plywood. Once water gets in it stays. The moisture eventually turns the plywood into something similar to excellent topsoil.
     
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