Noahs' Ark- Better than New?

there's a visitors center wherever there is money to be made from the gullible

 

i'm not the one making claims

 

I find it amazing that people don't understand social history very well, even today, where repercussions from a vengeful God or more appropriately a spiteful overload, looking to control the masses he hasn't sufficient troops to do it with, is still exercised.

All "ancient" societies have some reference to a great flood, so it's very likely a cataclysmic flooding event occurred in areas all around the world. Of course, the logical among us, would draw the reasonable conclusion that the "event" was bad, but not as bad as the bible suggests, as they were still many folks around to pass the story along through word of mouth. Naturally, the next reasonable conclusion is the gene pool issue, if the biblical account was accurate. We now understand that nothing, not one single life form on the ark, would have survived with just a single male and female gene set to work from. Oops . . .

These two things alone make the story, just what it is and you can still be a faithful person and have issue with the stories of the bible, particularly the old testament.

This is the actual crux of the issue, can a person that has faith and a devotion to their christian God, still get to heaven if they don't believe the world is 5,500 years old or that 65 million years ago an extraterrestrial impact killed off the dinosaurs or that people survived the (many) great floods and told the tale to their kids or that fish managed to swim right through the great flood or that some illnesses can make you appear to be dead, then you mysteriously come back to life, coincidentally when someone else was present.

The list is endless and has nothing to do with the actual generation of the biblical books, nor their authors and great book editors (who butchered the books). In fact, nothing in life is nearly as simple to figure out as the role of supreme beings have played in socialites throughout time.

Leaders have been historically the people you went too for answers to things you didn't understand. "Why did my crops fail", "How come my wife died from the same illness that just made me sick for a week?" etc., etc., etc. the difficult, at the time unanswerable questions of life's mysteries.

Without answers to these questions, it would be nearly imposable to consul or comfort an irrational, grief stricken mob, bent on tossing you out of power and taking your empire. Enter the all seeing, all knowing supreme being. Initially, these interestingly enough looking just like us beings, handled specific issues: sun rise, sun set, good harvest, how horny your wife was, how big your fortune would be, etc. This worked for many generations, but eventually folks realized the sun rise god was a joke, because they'd figured out the world was round and that your wife was horny when she damn well felt like it and these gods fell from favor. In fact, much is written about the ridiculousness of the many gods and their fall from grace as social knowledge grew.

Low and behold, just in time a new God with a capital "G" comes along to solve the problems of society again.

If you stand back and look as social progress from a historical view, a progression of advances can be seen. In times when the multiple gods ruled the earth, social advance was stagnant. It wasn't until these gods where considerably discounted as meaningless and arbitrary, that society took off and many social advances occurred.

Ah, the the capital "G" God appeared and social advances took a back seat again. In fact, the first 1,500 years of this new God's rein showed a return to previously discarded social controls and beliefs. Not until the burden of religious requirements was cast off (again) did societies begin to advance again. 400 years ago we burned little girls for making a funny face in church. Since casting off these restraints a few hundred years ago, society has roared and moved well past previous goals. We now live to better ourselves, not please our human overloads and God as was the previous social goal.

Completely unnecessary, as society has side stepped it (again) and will eventually advance past this latest social control crutch (what this sort of thing always has been). There will always be "throw backs" to these social advances, such as the fundamentalists seek for example. These people will forever be mired in the mud of the past, no advances past the restraints of these self imposed controls.

Looking at mud flows and creating visions of things that justify an ancient absurdity is just what it appears to be. For those that really believe in this sort of stuff, I just happen to have come in ownership of the third tablet Moses carried down Mount Arafat. I'll be taking EBay bids sometime next month . . .

 

That would be 5 more. Is there anything like " Thou shalt pay thy landlord forthwith withoutith any ration of BS " ? (Are these set in stone , yet?)

 

In all the years these sites have been known about someone would have taken a coring drill, even non powered and dug out a wood sample. If the time frame was proved they would be famous. Millions would pay to see the site.

 

You haven’t read our posts have you? You are still hung up on making the boat real without thinking about the bigger picture.

It disproves itself to all but the very gullible. You can be conned into believing anything. Once inducted you want to believe and therefore you'll actively avoid looking for the real truth. There is so much dishonest fraud by proponents of creationism that the whole movement is tainted beyond any redemption. They bear false witness.

Other people have mentioned before on this forum, there's a book by Ian Plimer called "telling lies for god" It details how the fundamentalist Christian movement uses deceit lies and distortion to give people a defense against science that erodes a factual basis for the Biblical stories.
Typical of this groups activities are engaging in scientific fraud and falsifying qualifications. Fake experts with self bestowed degrees doing gods work!
Archeologists from their usually unaccredited 'universities' are not out there to conduct proper methodical archeology but rather to find archeological sites that can be interpreted as supporting the biblical tales. Like Abraham's Alter, lots of circular arguments: What we found must be Abrahams alter because the Bible says it's there and we found something there so it is Abrahams Alter, that message is pushed hard and as a result gullible people believe without question.

The Ark myth is a classic. Ian Plimmer calls it ‘The Flood Of Absurdity’ and details numerous individual inconvenient facts each one alone negates the suggestion of a recent worldwide flood. These numerable inconvenient and totally irrefutable facts are simply ignored by the creationist movement. Or they simply ignore them away with statements like “Where science and the Bible disagree Science must be wrong” (Gish, Creation Research Institute).

There's a lot of apologetics and polemics trying to denounce many areas of science but nearly all of these unsupported ramblings are just a spin doctrine of smoke and mirrors.

Look at the supposed Ark posted by Bill above, not the geological formation he wants to believe in but the mythical wooden vessel. The Biblical Ark myth is an allegorical story of the devout being rewarded, borrowed largely from a much older Babylonian myth.

The engineering of such a vessel in wood is an impossibility, that's clearly shown by any engineering analysis. You cannot build a wooden vessel that large and have it hold together at sea.
Following several individual observations by NA’s that you couldn’t build such a vessel, the creationist movement countered that it had been analyzed by ‘Engineers’ from ‘A Korean university’ and found to be perfectly sound !
Needless to say that correct analysis cannot exist, either the claim is a fabrication or the Engineers involved were either incompetent or dishonest. I’ve asked several times who did the analysis, I’ve never heard anything in return and never seen a proper reference so I presumably it’s another fraud. Like much of the argument used by these groups. This movement will stick to such an argument knowing it to be false witness until it no longer ‘holds water’ with the masses. Then they come up with another alternative and you can expect arguments now such as the ark used a lot of metal in it’s construction.

There is still SO MUCH MAGIC needed for the very tall tale to work that you could make up any solution and no-one needed to be murdered.

But concern over such minute detail in the big Ark picture is still pointless. The whole story has to be either an unacknowledged miracle on an unparalleled scale anywhere in the Bible since creation, or a simple allegorical tale.

Why didn't God do a better job of applying all that magic? Did all people, and animals, the little children and infants really deserve to die so wretchedly clinging to wreckage, watching Noah floating around denying them any aid, or did God magically euthanize them all to prevent them suffering?

Would you personally leave an infant to drown because you thought god intended it? Would you actually worship someone who drowned a kindergarden class of 4 year olds because one of them stole another’s chocolate bar ?

The story denounces itself on a much larger scale than physical absurdity alone. This is no act of a Christian god.

You destroy the Bible as a work of faith by trying to make it factual.

 

The wood samples show a laminate wood construction (plied wood)or Gopher wood as they referred to it in Noah's time. The wood itself is unusual in that there are no growth rings. There were no seasons which cause growth rings today before the flood according to the scripture. This wood is unique in the world. It is the only surviving structure from the pre-flood days...and it shows clearly 'no growth rings'.

Also remember, the plans laid out in Genesis for the Ark are a blueprint on how to do core-composite construction using the same divine proportions used to build the Ark of the Covenant and the Temple itself. Except the Ark, Noah's Ark, incorporates the curvature.. almost like the Temple encased in a shell.A massive seed of sorts. The shell itself has the same structural properties as an eggshell has, except a much stronger/thicker wall.

I am surprised you guys havn't pointed out the impracticality/impossibility of building to such a large scale (515 ft) using wood yet?

 

I'm sorry; you're just flat delusional.

Of course, I mean that in the kindest, gentlest and most supportive way possible....

 

I find the use of the term 'delusional' funny in this context. It's origin comes from "the deluge" or the great flood. Noah was the first 'delusional' person as my understanding of the origin.

And of coarse, I mean that in the kindest, gentlest and most supportive way possible..

 

You can't just make stuff up and call it fact. Well, you can but it's sort of......delusional.

 

I didn't say this particular structure was THE ark. I said prove it didn't exist. Don't try to twist my words.

 

That's because it's not wood. That's more typical dishonesty dished up to attract the ignorant and the gullible.

It's not a ship, and you are being lead up the garden path there. These zealots don't substantiate anything, and they lie and distort wholesale and believe it's OK to do so to for their goals. There's so much dishonesty and forgery and faked facts and amateur rubbish in this ARKEOLOGY that's its painful to see otherwise intelligent people being sucked in.

No they aren't. That's just a wild theory that appeals to you personally. That doesn't make it a fact outside of your brain.

A nut !

It's by magic anyway, why would you need engineering principles when it's all magic?

 

Precisely Sir.

A nut. Noah built what the customer ordered which happened to be one huge nut. I guess that makes the customer a nut? Why is a hull with the structural properties found in a 'nutcase' a bad idea in a boat or something? I would imagine that we would all HOPE to posses a boat even close to being built like a 'nutcase'.

It's also built like a duck. Is that a bad thing in a boat or something? Am I delusional here in suggesting that a boat built like a nut and shaped like a duck is some kind of absurdity?

 

without using the bible, prove there was a flood or ark

any other references to them?

 

Yes, in every culture.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html