No Gelcoat Needed. Ceramic-Based Epoxy?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by useragentseven, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. useragentseven
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Orlando, FL

    useragentseven Junior Member

    I'm in the process of designing a 66 foot catamaran, and was thinking about hull finishes.

    I hear of all these boat owners applying some type of nano-ceramic coating/finish over their Gelcoat. I was thinking since Gelcoat is so soft, what if I could skip the Gelcoat, and apply something much harder, and much slippery, like ceramic directly to the fiberglass, or use it instead of typical epoxies when laying up the fiberglass.

    Superior Products International
    claims that its exterior coating "Epoxotherm", can be submerged without water penetration. It is a ceramic-based, two part epoxy that can be applied to any substrate.

    Would this coating be enough, just applied directly to marine fiberglass, without any Gelcoat?

    And, how would this fare permanantly submerged underwater?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  2. jorgepease
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 1,586
    Likes: 44, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 75
    Location: Florida

    jorgepease Senior Member

    Not all boats use gelcoat. Many are just painted so the ceramic coating might be enough, I know some commercial ships have such a coating but you might want to check weight.
     
  3. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 1,673
    Likes: 67, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 506
    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    There is nothing new about ceramics added to coatings, they come and go in popularity depending on the latest claims.

    They aren't bad, but you couldn't use one easily as a laminating resin.

    I'm not sure what benefits you plan to see using this type of epoxy over standard epoxies used in the marine industry now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  4. useragentseven
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Orlando, FL

    useragentseven Junior Member

    I was hoping the ceramic-based epoxy would be harder than gelcoat, and require less maintenance. The coating professionals that apply the nano-ceramic coatings over the Gelcoat claim positive advantages.

    An increase in hull speed would also be a plus. Am I correct in saying the harder the outer coating the less friction in the water?
     
  5. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 1,673
    Likes: 67, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 506
    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    Your boat is going to be bottom painted, the epoxy or gel coat (of any kind) won't be exposed directly to the water, most of the time an epoxy barrier coat is applied to the hull, then antifouling paint over it.

    That product also says it has a rough surface, even if there was some benefit ceramic coatings tend to be hard to sand and polish.
     
  6. useragentseven
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Orlando, FL

    useragentseven Junior Member

    It has a rough surface? I haven't read that. Could you provide a link?

    I believe the "Epoxotherm" product is sprayed on, with a water base. My toilet bowl is very hard, slick, and has a nice shiny finish. The toilet may not have the same type of ceramic coating. however. I'm just interested in learning more about ceramic-based product that can replace or eliminate the need for Gelcoat and require a ton less maintenance,if possible. It would be advantageous, if I can get a year or two out of the maintenance of a ceramic-based coating, as opposed to the semi-annual maintenance required of Gelcoat, and more frequent waxing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  7. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 1,673
    Likes: 67, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 506
    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    I went to the website you linked and read the description of the product, it's designed for insulating pipes and tanks, at least that what they claim it's for.


    As already mentioned, you don't need gel coat, there are many other coatings that can be applied to the surface.


    What resin are you making this hull with, and what is the purpose of the boat?

    Narrowing it down a bit helps with choosing a resin and method of building the boat.
     
  8. useragentseven
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Orlando, FL

    useragentseven Junior Member

    I am in the design phases of building a 60-70ft fiberglass, live-a-board, sailing catamaran.

    I am actually very innexperienced with resins and/or epoxies. I have watched family members build small fishing boats, laying up fiberglass, etc. while growing up, but, have never built a boat before. I wish to do so, considering the prices of live-a-board catamarans on the market (even used vessels). Plus you get to design it the way you want.

    I'm trying to do as much research, planning, and fore-thought as possible before any unnecessary, or failed attemtps. In my research, however, on Gelcoat, and paint, I found there are both advantages, and disadvantages of both. To avoid using too many, or multiple coating products together (like Gelcoat over epoxy, or even worse --- a nano-ceramic over Gelcoat, over epoxy/resin), I'm looking for an epoxy that can be not just used a coating but, also in the fiberglass lay-up process.

    I'll do my best to read throughout the "Materials" forum posts, and replies to better inform myself about the process of epoxy application, and what types are best. But, I do also welcome any comments, as I am trying to keep the exterior of the hull as simple, slick (frictionless) as possible. Any tough, hard epoxy, or something with the characteristics of something dense like ceramic is what I'm after.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  9. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 1,673
    Likes: 67, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 506
    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    Again, whatever finish you have on the molded part is almost irrelevant, the hull will have antifouling paint on it, this is where your friction point is, if it even makes much off a difference.
     
  10. jorgepease
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 1,586
    Likes: 44, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 75
    Location: Florida

    jorgepease Senior Member

    The Micanti film has my attention at the moment, a bit more expensive than bottom paint but non-toxic and longer lasting.
     
  11. useragentseven
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Orlando, FL

    useragentseven Junior Member

    Thanks, for the replies. Micanti Film sounds wonderful. Their website says it's supposed to last at least five years, and most likely up to 10. Didn't know this existed. Sounds great.
    From their datasheet it appears the Micanti Film degrades at speeds above 30 knots.
    I wonder what else causes the film to degrade over it's lifespan?
    Time in the water?
    Tempuratures encountered?
    Percentage of salt in the water?
    Percentage of particulates in the water?

    They also have a new product name (Finsulate) and website devoted to smaller vessels, and pleasurecraft.

    Pricing? Must have to contact them, or a distributor, but looks like they only currently have them in Norway, and New Zealand.

    If you know a US based distributor, or dealer, please....
     
  12. jorgepease
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 1,586
    Likes: 44, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 75
    Location: Florida

    jorgepease Senior Member

    They quoted me about $4500 for a 55 footer. It's like applying a wrap, Im sure they will train you and let you do it yourself, that is what I plan on doing.
     
  13. useragentseven
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Orlando, FL

    useragentseven Junior Member

    This is a similar product with a similar application procedure, and they have sample colors. You can order them for the price of just your contact, and shipping information.
     
  14. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 697
    Likes: 20, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    It says it cannot be used for semi-planing hulls, but okay for planing hulls and displacement hulls?
     

  15. useragentseven
    Joined: Apr 2017
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 0, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Orlando, FL

    useragentseven Junior Member


    I was wondering if this Epoxotherm (ceramic-based epoxy) could be used as a resin? Or is an epoxy just meant to be an exterior coating?
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.