Nicol Tri - Alloy Lattice Crossbeams

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Walter M, Jan 2, 2011.

  1. Walter M
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Perth

    Walter M New Member

    Hi All

    I am looking at a Nicol tri with alloy lattice beams. Engineering and construcion still look OK considering age but any advice on early Nicol designs and the alloy latice crossbeam construction out there.

    A search of the threads found referrence to a boat similar to Escapade but with alloy beams but no detail. Catsketcher appears knowledgeable if available?

    Any advice appreciated.

    Cheers Walter M
     
  2. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 6,033
    Likes: 337, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Hi Walter

    Welcome to the forum

    1) What kind of boat is it..and what size etc etc
    2) Can you define what is Nicol Tri...not familair, is this a trade name??
     
  3. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 13,413
    Likes: 333, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Are you talking about beams built with a kind of zig zag pattern? I think that corrosion would be the main problem, and you need someone to inspect them onsite.
     
  4. catsketcher
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 1,188
    Likes: 82, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 790
    Location: Australia

    catsketcher Senior Member

    proved by test of time

    Gday

    I would like to have a close look at the alloy beams. As I remember them they are round tube about 150mm top and bottom with welded tube braces between. As most of Lex' tris were built in the late 70s early 80s they have been pretty well proven by now.

    As almost no one can tell you the load characteristics of a tri it is hard to work out the safety factor for these beams. I would get a very close look at the welds and the attachment points. These type of beams were also used on Assassin a 42ft (approx) tri from the same time. The only Nicol tri I every really got a great look at had the beams mounted on a space frame in the main hull.

    As far as I remember the beams were well designed and certainly had a huge dimension in depth. I would ring Shaun Arber at his yard - he used to do surveys- or Paul Slivka. Both should remember these boats when they were cutting edge. Dudley Young also had Ben Bolt, another alloy beamed Nicol. Give him a ring try the Multihull Yacht club at Wynnum Manly.

    cheers

    Phil
     
  5. Walter M
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Perth

    Walter M New Member

    Thanks Phil. Will contact Dudley Young given Ben Bolt connection. Are there any references you could point me towards. WA coast has some funny wave patterns and believe Fremantle has dubious honour of a Farrier F31 capsize so concerned about an older tri Nicol design for coastal cruising. Space frame and lattice construction looks OK but any advice appreciated... Thanks for your reply. Cheers Walter
     
  6. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 2,079
    Likes: 40, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 214
    Location: Pacific NW North America

    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    The boat sounds like a Lex Nicol design who is Hedley Nicol's nephew. His boats are well regarded and had proven success in racing. If you PM me I'll send you his email address. He is happy to consult on both his and Hedley's designs.
     
  7. catsketcher
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 1,188
    Likes: 82, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 790
    Location: Australia

    catsketcher Senior Member

    don't forget the laminate

    Gday Walter

    I would get in touch with Lex through his email. I would also like to look at the foam layup schedule. Some of these racers were very lightly built out of polyester resin and woven glass. This is not as strong, stiff or fatigue resistant as stitched fabrics and epoxy.

    I saw the old Devils Three ten years ago looking very very sad. She just looked worn out. The problem with light foam laminates is that the glass will initially be stiff but will fatigue and then go soft. Lasers do this too. Many IOR`racers are also soft at the end of their lives. One contemporary cat from this period had one layer of 10oz glass over 10mm foam. That is really light. I have the dubious honour of having tested this boat in a port and starboard incident with my Twiggy's bow. The laminate didn't break so much as mush. (It was only blowing 3 knots and he parked in front of me)

    So yes check out the beams but don't forget the foam layup. Hard used foam is a way worse thing to deal with than ply. You can stiffen ply but a foam laminate with a crushed core and fatigued laminate really needs to be totally replaced.

    Just for some numbers. A typical foam laminate in epoxy and stitched fabrics will be about 600gm biax, 12mm foam, 600gm biax for a 30 footer. With lots of reinforcing. Just walk around and feel, then get someone else to walk around with you inside. You will get an idea is she is still stiff.

    cheers

    Phil
     
  8. Walter M
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Perth

    Walter M New Member

    Hi Phil

    Thanks. Have had foam fibreglas boats before and did some deck jumping etc on first visit....Boat is Ben Bolt now in WA so trying also to contact Dudley Young. Found a write up of a mid nineties cruise he did. Could you PM me any contact info you may have for him. Your assistance appreciated. Regards Walter
     
  9. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 2,079
    Likes: 40, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 214
    Location: Pacific NW North America

    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    There appear to be several people interested in contacting Lex so (I hope this is all right with him) I'll post his email rather than PM everybody. He can be contacted at lex.nicol@gmail.com . All boats have to be looked at in terms of the use they have had, lightweight flyers especially. The Aluminum beams are probably over engineered but should be checked for signs of metal fatigue and failing welds. Has the boat been taken care of or was it raced 3 times around the world and out away wet etc....Design wise they are good sailing boats. My old Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2 is a vice free fast cruiser and Lex's boats have sensible proportions but hotter #'s. Foam/glass doesn't have the fatigue resistance of wood so it really comes down to the mileage, not the years. Lex's boats are a piece of Austalia's multihull heritage as a bonus.
     
  10. catsketcher
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 1,188
    Likes: 82, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 790
    Location: Australia

    catsketcher Senior Member

    Nice boat

    Ben Bolt seemed like one of Lex' nicer boats. I knew Dudley about 18 years ago so you have as much chance of tracking him down now as me. As I said try the Multihull Yacht club at Manly. Or you could chance that he hasn't moved. He and Jenny used to live near the centre of Brisbane. Phone book perhaps.

    The only thing I will say is that you need to be careful of loading with such a boat. The immersion rate will be very low in such a boat. I kid you not but when we once sent home 30kg and could see the difference. BB will not be as bad but she will be quite sensitive to weight. You will need to be a lightweight cruiser.

    That said my mum met Dudley and Jenny cruising FNQ so the boat can go places. My mum didn't like it when the chop would lap onto the lowest flare and make a slapping sound at anchor. Low flare is always a pain when a boat has a low immersion rate as the flare will come into play quickly. She was pretty a fast boat though

    cheers

    Phil
     
  11. neville2006
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 33
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 19
    Location: australia

    neville2006 Junior Member

    Hey Walter, whats happening with Ben Bolt...you decided against it?
    Why, do you mind me asking?
    Neville
     
  12. neville2006
    Joined: Jul 2008
    Posts: 33
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 19
    Location: australia

    neville2006 Junior Member

    Hey...she's now $30K but needing new motor...

    someone?
     

  13. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
    Posts: 1,806
    Likes: 56, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 608
    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    If i didnt live half a world away id be all over that tri, she looks very well loved, i agree with Cat that she has stood the test of time, she looks to have recent paint which makes it a bit harder to inspect the beam welds so....I agree that those berth flats aft could pound in a seaway if overloaded. Ive slept (or tried to) in a wing berth on an overloaded tri, not a pleasant experience. BB is a great looking tri at a great price, id just mount an outboard like lots of tris and save some weight and cost. Somebody buy it please so i can stop fantasizing.
    Steve.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.