AutoCAD sub-layers?

I do all my 2D 'documentation' in AutoCAD. Until recently I would import the various details from my fairing program and make a series of drawings (in model space) - for example, one for the inboard profile and arrangement, one for the profile and deck plan, one for the construction profile and plan, etc etc. These would all be in a single model space 'worksheet', but each would be a separate drawing.
I did it this way because I found having all the details in the one drawing, laid on top of one another, made the drawing very complicated. However it introduces the possibility of errors as you are working on the same details in a number of different places at once.
So I've been playing with doing it all on the one drawing, then freezing the layers as required in the different layout (paper space) tabs. But here's the rub... sometimes I want to include some aspects of a layer, but not all of it, in one drawing, and other aspects in another. For instance, I may have a portlight that is only half visible in the profile, but entirely visible in the inboard profile. Or hatch in the deck that I want to show faintly in the arrangement plan, but more obviously in the deck plan.
Any clues on the best way to do this?

 

Depending on which version of autocad you are on it might not be to difficult. On 2006 you could be in paper space, select a seperate layout (which it sounds like you are already doing) and use the page setup to use a different ctb file for plotting. This would require a good deal of forethought but I think that it could be done.

I don't remember which version of autocad that this became available but I think it has been for at least a couple of versions.

 

Boy, this is right up my alley! (you can hear me rubbing my hands together gleefully)
I have looked into this several times and here's what I've come up with. A few possibilities!

A. You can set up your layers for each of your views the way you want them and save the layer state, ie: the on/off configuration of all your layers at once. These are easily called up, and modified and re-saved as a new layer state. This is tricky when you take into account blocks that may have different layers contained in them. But the upshot is that you can have tons of layers and manipulate them more easily.

B. You can create a block of of the entities you want to turn on or off in groups, and put it onto a layer that you can turn off or on. Then you still have the option of turning the layer that they are DRAWN on off or on, which includes all entities that you drew on that layer, not just the ones you "blocked". And blocks are easy to make modifications to (without exploding them) in acad 2000 and beyond. As I mentioned, make sure that your block gets moved to a new layer of it's own once you've made it, so you can turn it off or on independantly of the layer the parts in the block are drawn on. THIS IS AS CLOSE AS I'VE COME TO SUB-LAYERS.

C. Go straight to solid modeling and put joinery, structural, mechanical and electrical elements on different layers. Then use paperspace to view your solid model from the desired angle or through the desired section. The objects that are going to be hidden will be hidden by the actual object that is obstructing your view of it. And when they are "off" they are not there. Viola! This is really a powerful option, and I think one of the essential reasons AutoDesk had for coming up with paperspace in the first place. I would like to also point out that I **DISLIKE INTENSELY** modelling in AutoCAD because I find it more difficult to achieve what I want, than using software specifically designed for surface or solid modelling. Solid modelling is the right road to go down though.

 

hmmm..... so essentially, short of making a complete 3D model of the boat and all it's interior and equipment (whether that be in AutoCAD or something else), the only way of showing aspects of the boat differently in various views is to duplicate them, edit them, and then put them on separate layers.... :?:

 

Don't be sad!! You can use "regions" to hide objects, and manipulate their properties using layer switches or commands like "hideplot". Use them to blind off things and areas. Cheating is always an option, particularly if you're the only one who will ever know

 

Still not necessary to use 3d

I still think by manipulating the layers, and the ctb file you will be better off if you want to use 2d.

For example the portlight you want to show only half in one view, but in another view the entire portlight. Simply create an area bounded by a closed polyline covering one half the portlight. Hatch the interior of the polyline with a solid hatch. Assign the polyline and the hatch to a layer called "hidden" or some other appropriate name. Make sure the draworder of the hatching sits above the item or portion of the item you want to hide. Open your ctb file and use a color that you dont use for anything else. Set the color to 0% screening. Assign the shaded color to the layer "hidden". In the different paperspaces freeze off the "hidden" layer where you want the portlight to show, and thaw the "hidden" layer where you only want only half the portlight to show.

By setting the shading to an appropriate screen you can lighten up lines you want to appear lighter or appear to be in the background.

In your second example you want your hatch to show faintly in one drawing, but boldly in another. By selecting which ctb file you want to use with which paperspace drawing you can do what you are trying to do.

The issue really becomes a lesson in layer management schemes and whether you want the colors for individual objects from the layer, or be carried with the individual object.

Now I'm a civil engineer, not a naval architect, but I have been working with Autocad for approximately 20 years. As such I understand 2d drawings very well. I can draw in 3d, but I don't like to do it in autocad. By utilizing 2d drawings it seems that drafting is much more efficent for doing details. You might be able to do more with the 3d construction and see where potential design errors lie, but to do it right is going to take a lot longer drawing in 3d.

Good luck

 

I fully understand you, Will, cause as I started to use autocad my first voluntee was to do like we did with our vellums and I tried to create one layer for hull lines ,a second one for inb prof&arr....But I dicovered It was very complex thing.And then during my first practicas in yd offices,I understand "some yd" were using layers this way;one for texte,one for DWL and CL another for hidden lines ,a forth for lines above ...Of course this was true for a yacht designer but in an other office the yd utilizes much more the table form in pa. setup mana. to change the ploting color of lines and their types and weights.Lucas

 

Suppose that the portlight is on a layer called "PROFILE" make two new layers called "PROFILE_IN" and "PROFILE_OUT" or whatever you can remember
Then , breake the lines if neceserry, and change the layer for the part you want to be invisible. Let the layer "PROFILE" be thawed in all vports, while "PROFILE_IN" is frosen in all other vports than the inboard profile.

Of course you can also use the "WIPEOUT" command to mask unwanted parts of the portlight.

 

From all I've seen so far then, the only real way of doing this is to copy the object to a new layer, then edit and show it as necessary on that new layer....
Thanks for all your help gents...