Newb with some preferences, few clues...

It does sound good, have been doing a bit of sniffing around the net and overall plywood sounds OK. I always tend to think of plywood as being a cheap alternative to real wood but warps and comes apart when damp... Strikes me as weird anyone would build a boat out of the stuff!

I guess good quality ply should, in theory, be stronger than solid wood, at least in terms of resistance to splitting along the grain.

However I read somewhere that one needs ultra-dry conditions for building - not possible here where at best it would be under a drive-way cover, in a hot humid country where there's at least 3 thunderstorms a week.

Borneo and humidity are the same word!

A couple of enquiries locally have not turned up any marine ply or epoxy either.

Looking at prices in the US, the cost of the plywood and expoxy would be as much or more than I'd spend on a 2nd hand boat, throw in the need for a brand new engine (and trailer) and it seems an expensive way to go boating. At this rate it is looking cheaper to find a suitable boat elsewhere and have it shipped, despite the perils of such a route.

I'm even considering the idea of boat-building as a career, as the cost per boat would be a lot less than producing a one off I suspect. If going that route then fiberglass would probably be best. Certainly there's a total lack of such a boatbuilder here, despite the hype about how "people in Borneo use the rivers as highways".

I'm really taken with the Bluejacket 20 but will have to re-think.

One thing I haven't tried yet is driving down the coast to look around some of the other big rivers further down, see if there are any Borneo-priced builders down there. They are certainly not on the internet but net use seems very patchy around here. Not as easy as it sounds though, with local roads it's about an 8 hour drive and any such builders would be up the river anyway. Plus, being right on the equator, it gets pitch black suddenly at 7pm, so such a window-shopping trip would be a weekend away jobby.

Then again, if I can't manage a weekend of boat-related travelling, what use a boat?



S.

 

Snorbitz;
We're to help you find the right boat but your fascinating location has us wondering about geography, economics and sociology too. All most of us know of Borneo is that it is in the South China Sea, It's big, about the size of Montana in the US or maybe Bolivia in S.A. We have learned of Borneo from National Geographic magazine and are led to believe that only aboriginal headhunters live there. Obviously not so.

If you are thinking in terms of building a wooden boat or even fiberglass, you might look into the Hampton style boats that are held in some esteem in Maine and thereabouts. Alan White, resident Downeaster, can probably fill us in about those boats. These boats come to mind because they are very able in all kinds of weather, durable, and have reasonable economy of operation even when heavily loaded. Besides that, they are really salty looking.

I'll hush now and proceed to Google up information about Borneo.

 

I'm back. For those that may be interested in the third largest island in the world, try Earthisland.org/Borneo. There you will find disappointing information about the history and ultimate exploitation of an Eden like place. They have (or had) incredible rain forests, easily rivaling the Amazon, with hundreds of species of timber. Snorbitz can probably get boat building lumber of the most exotic and desirable kind there. Maybe not fiberglass trees but plenty other good ones to choose from.

 

When Magellan's fleet (what was left of it) was there in the early 1500's, Brunei, on the norht coast of Borneo, probably equaled in splendor just about anything in Europe.

It does provoke thoughts of primitive granduer & raw adventure. The heat would bake me like a potato in no time though.

What type of tidal currents would you be dealing with? I'd suspect strong seasonal variations in wind.

Take care.

Tim

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if some fine boatbuilding woods abound in Borneo. All of the better hardwoods for boatbuilding seem to issue from damp equatorial forests (where trees need a natural resistence to mold damage, I suppose).
I would also suspect that the cost of such woods would be reasonable.
The challenge would be to find a design that's suitable for plank construction and decide whether sawn or steamed frames would be best in light of what types of woods are available.
Dories at 20 ft have an amazing capacity, are simple to build, and are reasonable under oars, pole, motor, and sail.
The slab-sided banks dory is legendary for its seakeeping qualities, and it rows like a dream. Slocum built a Cape Ann dory from jungle wood and sailed it back to New England over a hundred years ago.
Regarding the Hampdens, they are developed hulls. A 20 footer comes in at about 1700 weight with motor, quite a difference from the 300 lbs the dory weighs. They are high-bowed with the flare of lobster boats, usually open except for a small deck. They are very sweet looking.
The original Hampdens were sailing vessels of shallow draft and inside ballast (see Chapelle's "Boatbuilding"). Those boats made a good transition to power. Today, they make general purpose recreational boats and launches.

Alan

 

Hi, thanks again for the replies.

Where I live is Kuching, the "capital" of Sarawak, which is considered part of Malaysia. The little tiny country of Brunei is next to it, then beyond that is Sabah, also part of Malaysia. Basically those 3 countries are along the north coast, with the rest of Borneo being considered part of Indonesia.

Yes, even today there are some fantastic rainforests and jungle trekking is one of my favorite hobbies. Having said that, Kuching is a fairly large and civilized city, so any jungle adventures require either an hour or two by jeep away from the city .... or.... by boat.

You don't have to go far by boat to feel you're already in "deepest Borneo".

The population, like many developing countries, has a distinct 'strata' to it. There are many who live with very little money at all, we're talking wood houses without glass windows and so on. A little higher and there's even more who do have a conventional house, TV, probably a motorbike or car but live in little villages where not much happens. You have a reasonable size middle class, with newer cars, nice homes, satellite TV, often the houses are quite large. Then there's the rich, with incomes out of all proportion to everyone else.

As such the boating scene is very much small open wood canoes, or mega-money yachts, with very little inbetween. There are some sea-going boats but again around 30-50ft and serious money, even though they are really rather basic, just giant canoes really, used for commerical fishing.

15-20ft seaworthy boats just don't seem to exist here.

People either use little open things to potter from one village to the next, own a commercial fishing boat, or are millionaire playboys. Boating as an actual hobby? No.

It's a total contrast to the UK where there's a thriving boating scene of those who just want to mess around in the water for fun and hobby fishing.

Even fishing is considered a bit puzzling to the locals, why go fishing when you can go to the market? A boat for fishing? You mean a 40ft thing, 200hp, with big nets, yes?

Oh, little boat, you mean canoe, with a little net?

"No, I want a semi-displacement cuddy cabin with a V berth and little stove"

"Eh?"

I have managed to find one place that sells fiberglass boats but aside from huge fishing vessels the only small one was a 14ft punt thing. That's smaller than some of the saltwater crocodiles around here.

Yes, I believe there are some strong tides around here, but aren't tides strong everywhere?

It's the thought of fighting river currents and tides that put me off the idea of a displacement hull - from what I've read a 20ft boat, regardless of power, wouldn't be speedy enough.

By the way, looking at some of the photos we took, I notice the engine on that yellow boat had "30" written on it. Not 3.0, 30, so I'm figuring that's the horsepower?

That thing was plenty speedy enough, whizzing along at quite a rate on full throttle, though also seemed happy to burble along at half throttle at a quite reasonable rate, around 8mph. I'm happy at 8mph, as long as I can double that when necessary.

Due to discovering the barrage barrier thing, my preference for something that can be trailered is now absolute, as the barrier is only open from 6pm (an hour before it gets dark) to midnight. Boating in the dark round here doesn't seem sensible, not least because there's quite a few semi-submerged logs and stuff floating down the river, especially after a storm. Another good reason for not wanting a speedboat!

Yes, I can imagine there is some pretty exotic wood around here but finding just what to use and being sure that is in fact what I'm buying would not be so easy. I can speak some Malay (saya boleh cakap bahasa melayu sedikit) but wouldn't feel entirely confident specifying the wood type from a general store.

This is by no means the first time I've noticed you can buy almost anything here - apart from the things you can't. For example there are local stores that will sell you pretty much anything you can imagine for your kitchen, including some world class brands. Now try finding a simple spice rack.

A plastic washing up bowel that is NOT round and bright red or blue?

They have an infuriating yet somehow engaging habit of assuring you that anything they have never seen, never stocked, wouldn't know one if you beaned em about the head with one, is "finished already, out of stock".

"Do you sell Martian rocks, with a high plutonium content?"

"Ah, sorry, finished already. Soon in stock, come again!"

It's like an Ebay advert on Google - "Get 'bubonic plague' at Ebay!"

Same effect asking around. Everyone and his brother knows some guy who makes or sells boats, except he doesn't, but "can get it, no problem". "Semi-displacement, cuddy cabin...?"

"Finished already"

They're lovely people, heck I married one, but have no concept of fishing for fun, boating for fun or trekking through the jungle for fun. Don't get me wrong, they're fun-loving people with high-wattage smiles but they just don't "get" the idea of sweating up the river for the sheer fun of it, trying to catch fish without a net and perhaps some dynamite to "get things going".

One option is perhaps Brunei but being such a wealthy country it does again seem to be just mega-yachts. One dealer I was able to phone assured me no problem, could find me a little runabout - in fact he'd just had a little 44 footer that might interest me?




At this rate I'll waterproof my little 4x4 and stick a propellor out the back of it...



S.

 

Check out the Simmons sea skiff, which can be built in a lot of different sizes. They are light and seaworthy, great rough water boats.

Alan

 

There are some areas with minimal tidal ranges and weak to moderate tidal currents. Much of the Labrador Coast for instance. Most has a 6 foot tide.
Funny, cause it is not to far north of the Bay of Fundy (enourmas tide, 54ft).

Take care.

Tim

 

Thanks for the additional insight about your country and its' people. The place is decidedly intrigueing.

I read that you have all manners of wild life such as orangutans, and even a few rhinos. Now the place is beginning to sound scary, especially when you mentioned salt water crocs. Scuba diving is not an option I reckon.

If you can get your hands on "The Encyclopedia Of Wood" it will provide a bunch of information about tropical woods and how to identify them. Perhaps difficult to find locally as copies may be "finished already, out of stock". One of the boat wood gurus of our time is Richard Jaegels, a forestry professor at the University of Maine. He writes for every issue of Wooden Boat magazine. I expect that you might be able to correspond with him for exceptionally well qualified advice about equatorial woods, and Borneo types in particular. He is said to be co-operative in such inquiries.

If we can keep this thread going, you will have your boat and it wil be recommended and blessed by an international consortium of well meaning layabouts, sea dogs, and water puppies.

 

I did discover a link actually, though it only mentioned one type of wood from Sarawak, apparantly called "bindang" or something.

Will be back later



S.

 

There are several Univerity of Maine locations--- Orono, Portland, Machias (I think)...
I am twenty minutes from the Orono campus. I wonder which campus he works in.

 

Agathis spp. Kauri
Family: Araucariaceae
Other Common Names: Dakua makadre (Fiji), Kauri pine (New Zealand), Bindang (Sarawak), Menghilan (Sabah), Damar minyak (Malaya), Tolong (Brunei), Almaciga (Philippines).
Uses: Vats and tanks, patternmaking, millwork, boatbuilding, furniture components, face veneers, shingles, pencil slats.

sounds good, but then another site lists:

Bindang (Agathis alba)
Bindang (Agathis borneensis)
Bindang (Agathis moorei) *
Bindang (Agathis obtusa) *
Bindang (Agathis philippinensis) *
Bindang (Agathis robusta)

Mmm. So which is it?

Well jus found another site, seems that's a relatively soft wood:

http://www.forestry.gov.bn/forest/comm.htm

So, a question - would a dense and heavy but very strong wood be better, or a light and "strong enough" wood?

I kinnda like the idea of a boat built from "Bornoe ironwood" - the thing would be virtually bulletproof.

Presuming it would float


S.

 

Building a timber planked boat is a big step from buying a 15ft tinny. Will take a lot of learning.

The ideal boat timber is huon pine. Sadly you cannot buy it any quantity but knowing its characteristics helps. It does not rot. The local industry in Tasmania dig up 400 year old logs from the swamp and make furniture pieces from it. This is about the only timber allowed to be harvested. There is one "tree" still surviving that is over 10,000 years old. It is very slow growing so has a very tight grain. It has relatively low density so good for boats. Here is some detail:
http://oak.arch.utas.edu.au/tbia/tech_species_info.asp?speciesID=49464
So this is really good for boats.

Teak is a wonderful boat timber. Again very hard to get now. I think it was native to Indonesia. It is low density. It has an oily sap that resists water and rot. It has a very nice grain that does not split easily. Very easy to work with. Expensive boats use teak.

Kauri Pine is used for boats. I have never worked with it. These boats are skinned exclusively with Kauri and last a long time:
http://www.woodenboatshop.com.au/site/misc/wbs/downloads/2004website/coutaboats/coutaboats.htm

I have used meranti. It is OK for working with. Quite tight grain and not too hard to work. It will split and there seems to be a wide range of colour. I have not used it in an outdoor application so do not have first hand experience of its durability.

If you go for a really hard wood it is inclined to split and can be very hard to work. There are some really dense timbers that have very tight grain. They are so strong that they substitute for metal parts. Actually more dense than water. But steel boats float so the material density has nothing to do with floating or sinking. A small hardwood boat is likely to be heavy for a person to put on a trailer. More weight means more power.

You should get some experience with the various timber and pick up on what the locals use for boats. You might choose different timber for the frame to the skin. I would look for the low density timber that gives an acceptable life for the conditions.

Rick W.

 

Well, if building, I guess the best thing to use would be marine ply, as that's what the plans assume.

So my next question is, do you get ply from different woods or is marine ply sorta standardized?

Regarding the skiffs mentioned earlier, they're lacking the basic accomodation I'd need.

Ideally I want a little V berth thingy, though it doesn't need much more than that. Some storage would be more useful than a cooker for example, as I can carry everything I need in my rucsak, including dinky little stove. I would like to escape the mosquitos and inquisitive thieving monkeys though!

Back to my earlier question, is transporting a boat from the UK or Australia a sane option, for such a budget boat? Any idea how much such things cost?



S.

 

Marine ply is not all created equal. Okume is one of the better ones. Google M.L. Condon & Boulter Plywood. Thier sites will give some basic information.

Tim