New Zealand glue options - some local advice sought

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by bylsand, Aug 28, 2015.

  1. tdem
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: NZ

    tdem Senior Member

    It's hard to be sure but it looks like the nzfibreglass is selling the ados 4:1 resin. Seems pretty crazy that a 4L kit is about twice the cost of a 1L. For the ~1L the price is virtually the same as WEST from the fibreglass shop. From epoxies.co.nz an ados 5L kit is ~170. Almost seems to good to be true?

    There is definitely a markup for WEST, a lot can be found about this in the US where there are much cheaper options with a good track record.

    There is a range of qualities, but most brand names should be good. Epoxies from different manufacturers also might have a different viscosity, blush etc. Pays to do some research and I think stay away from really low mix ratios (like 1:1, 2:1). But I'm no expert.
     
  2. nzboy
    Joined: Apr 2011
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    nzboy Senior Member

    I normally buy epoxy on trademe I only use west epoxy you normally just specify which hardener you want I like a fast hardener which starts to gel in 45minutes when around 10 degrees celcius but for wetting out you probably need a slow one if around 20 degrees .Its a myth epoxy is hard to use compared to pva, resourcinal .Just make sure you buy a cheap $10 pack of vinyl gloves and china shop for cheap throw away brushes
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    West System epoxy is one of the highest priced products on the market. If you want to pay top dollar, then go for it. Most discount brands are 1/2 the cost of West System.

    PVA is easy to use, but it has a short open time and tends to creep under load. Even the type 1 certified PVA's just barely pass this test and aren't recommended for structural applications. Simply put, you can build furniture out of it, but bulkheads and planking or any other structural elements, should consider something else. A lightly loaded strip planked canoe is one thing, but asking a PVA to hold a mast together or bonding a bulkhead to a hull shell, is a wholly different thing. I just made a new mast, for a local guy that decided he'd build a birdsmouth mast with TiteBond III. It worked, for a while, but ripped open after a few seasons.

    Resorcinol is temperature dependant, much more so than epoxy, or even PVA's and it requires perfect joint faces and lots of clamping pressure, which often isn't possible on a boat. It's a time honored adhesive, but it's day is over for the most part, given the advantages of epoxy.

    These aren't debatable issues, but well established facts, no myths involved.
     
  4. nzboy
    Joined: Apr 2011
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    nzboy Senior Member

    Here in NZ west 25L is $438 ($310us) cheapest epoxy $386 ($270).The cheapest stuff is fine if you work in 20-25 degrees controlled temperature.I never even thought saving 15% would be worth it . West is regarded as just the standard in epoxy by which others are measured .I find it gives of less fumes and is good for glueing and laminating
     
  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You're making unfounded assumptions about West System, likely because you don't know the differences between the formulations. I have a few clients in NZ and none of them are using West, unless they're employing infusion or prepreg and using the professional series formulations, which the backyard builder wouldn't typical even know about, let alone be setup for. All of the major formulators are producing epoxies that are fractions of a degree within the physical attributes of the others. The biggest difference are the base and the modifiers in the hardeners, which can dramatically change how the goo works in primitive conditions (something other than an environmentally controlled shop). One of the biggest issues for the backyard builder is blush, which West System is well known to experience (except 207, which isn't all that bad). RAKA, System Three, Aero, Progressive and the others all have blush free (mostly) formulations, which can save a lot of headache for the backyard builder, even in NZ.
     
  6. nzboy
    Joined: Apr 2011
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    nzboy Senior Member

    I agree with you Especially if you are working with wetting out cloth .It would pay to get some professional advice .West is quite high viscosity at lower temperatures and probably not so good wetting out cloth unless temperature is over 20 celcius But I just like it for glueing work at low temps. System 3 is even rated to 0 celcius
     

  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    All the major formulators have various hardeners, that can cope with environmental conditions, fast to super slow. Viscosity can also be controlled with heat and fillers. A good low viscosity resin is RAKA, though I'm not sure the price it might be once imported. Some research into having it (online) shipped direct would be in order.
     
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