New Zealand glue options - some local advice sought

[bylsand]

Hi all, first post here. I'm based in New Zealand and have just started building a stitch n glue plywood pram. Living in a remote rural area we don't have any specialist marine shops. Mitre10 stocks the Norski range, but I can't quite get my head around the technical jargon to know what I should buy. I gather Epoxy resin gives the best performance but is nasty to work with, are there less toxic options?
Thanks, Brett

 

[whitepointer23]

Ebay is a good place for epoxy when you are rural. It gets posted to you. I don't know of anything else you could use. Epoxy is a major part of a stitch and glue construction.

 

[whitepointer23]

On ebay you get epoxy for a fraction of hardware store price.

 

[PAR]

Check into getting Botecote epoxy. It comes out of Queensland, though there might be a local distributor near you, it can be shipped.

I'm not sure where your information is coming from but, epoxy isn't nasty to work with, particularly compared to polyester or vinylester. If building a taped seam (stitch and glue) boat, then epoxy is the only choice. All the adhesive choices are toxic to some degree.

 

[waikikin]

I think the choices are similar to oz
FGI/Nuplex http://www.nuplex.com/composites for R180 range of epoxies
AD TECH http://www.adhesivetechnologies.co.nz/

I think "Epicraft" originated in nz- epiglue & HT epoxy range now from "International paints/Akzo Nobel"
As Par mentioned Bote Cote/ Boatcraft may be available there.

See this- http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/User Manual 2012 Part1.pdf

You can apply the same principles as "west" to nearly any epoxy resin system.... just substitute the numbered & marked up west products for generic extenders. I think international has parralel systems /pumps etc, some digital kitchen scales come in handy for batching also in the quantities you need.
Jeff

 

[whitepointer23]

6 kg marine epoxy resin kit on fleabay from composite suuplies sydney. $163 . You can order bote cote or west sys online but i think they would cost more and are the same thing any way. These people can supply your cloth as well.

 

[bylsand]

Thanks people, freighting stuff out of America to New Zealand usually more than doubles the landed price. Information sources so far are John Welsford "Backyard Boatbuilder" p22 and Robert Steward "Boatbuilding Manual" p 135, both seem to suggest that Epoxy is (at least potentially) more toxic than other products. Yet I've watched a couple of (American) youtubers applying resin to small wooden boats without any protection at all! Is phenol formaldehyde (Resorcinol) not much of an option? Cheers, Brett

 

[PAR]

If you wear and generally swim in uncured epoxy, then yes, it's pretty toxic, but the same is true of polyester, vinylester, polyurethane, etc. Have a look at the chemical concoction in resorcinol and tell me you'd be willing to bath in it.

This said, with appropriate safety precautions, you'll be fine. Epoxy is less problematic than the others, if used with protection. Climb into a cabinet or other closed space, to apply some styrene based products and see how long you stay conscious. Not the case with epoxy.

Resorcinol was an industry standard, but was easily overtaken by epoxy once viscosity modifiers were added at the end of the 60's. Resorcinol requires lots of clamping pressure, very closely fitted joints and ideal temperatures. None of this is necessary with epoxy, so you pick your poison (literally).

 

[bylsand]

Brilliant. So can you help me with what the difference is between epoxy glue and epoxy resin? I'm kinda getting the impression that one is a thinned down version of the other... Does one need to mix de-natured alcohol into the epoxy mix to de-water it? One you-tuber I watched did and seemed to suggest that it was imperative. Also, is it necessary or advisable to buy a proprietary filler powder or can one improvise...?

 

[kfly]

Trademe.co.nz is your best bet. NZfibreglass.co.nz lists their products on there but you'll probably get a better price contacting them directly. Should be looking at a bit over $100 (NZD) for a 5 litre kit

 

[PAR]

Bylsand, you need to download the free "Epoxy Book" at systemthree.com and the "User's Guides" at westsystem.com and have a good hard look at what epoxy is and does, as you're misinformed. As a rule, you do NOT want to dilute epoxy with anything, particularly solvents. There's lot of stuff online, including compelling arguments about the earth being flat and the moon landing filmed in the Arizona desert, but do yourself a big favor and look at the formulators information and leave YouTube alone for a while. West System is the industry leader and though you can learn a lot from folks online, much of it isn't worth watching and full of mistake and bad procedures. Read up on the proper procedures first, then see if you can associate what you've learned with some video.

 

[bylsand]

Thanks PAR, the Epoxy Book is a good read not to mention some hilarious cartoons. Cheers kfly, Ross is certainly on the ball, had kinda thought I'd prefer to buy local, but then the budget will only stretch so far. What are people's thoughts about the pre-wet vs dry-start techniques when glassing?

 

[tdem]

If you are near Hamilton I highly recommend visiting The Fibreglass Shop.

http://www.fibreglassshop.co.nz

They list all their prices online, ship NZ wide with free shipping on orders over $100.

 

[tdem]

For any interior work (not the seams) you can also get titebond II or titebond III on trademe. It's been used succesfully on many boats.

I've tried a few of the construction glues with some success, but it's really not more cost effective than epoxy and won't work with S&G.

 

[bylsand]

Thanks tdem, do you know why nzfibreglass would be able to have 5 litres of epoxy for $109 where the fibreglass shop sell 4 litres for $159.50? Is that just the premium for the West System name or is there a range of qualities in the epoxy?