New Trimaran Foilers

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. Vantage475T
    Joined: Aug 2016
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    Location: Lymington,UK

    Vantage475T Vantage475T

    Len followed up with me earlier as well with some more detail after I replied to him via his email quoted in the post above by Doug.

    <quote>The B2B race held on the 4th and 5th May over two days proved interesting. Race distance is 85 klms and first leg on Saturday is about 35 klms long. For the record STING #1 won this race just by beating one of the Pulse 600 by a second ( by several minutes on OMR ), the other Pulse 600 was no were in sight.

    The Pulse 600 from the factory does not have a screecher and has a top down furling spinnaker. Both Pulse turned up with "custom made windward cut screechers" also a huge light air spinnaker which is at least one third bigger then factory supplied spinnaker. Our screecher is an all rounder and the Pulse 600 custom screecher out pointed us by a couple of degrees but we were faster under jib and main due to our jib being a little larger.

    Please note "we did not have a spinnaker, the only boat without one " The Sunday race from start to top mark on the course was a light air down wind run with spinnakers flown from start for 40 klms. We said good by to the fleet as they quickly disappeared out of sight. Sooo if we had flown a spinnaker we clearly would have won this race, now talking to my sail maker, haha. </quote>

    I think that more detailed analysis is rather interesting!

    I'm looking to build Sting sail number 2 (have paid deposit and have study plans) once the plans are updated following the final foiling tests over the next couple of months and honestly can't wait to get started.

    I'll be building the foiling version once we can see it in action but the non-foiling boat once properly set up with spinny etc will be a serious bit of kit regardless.

    I want to use it to do a single handed thrash round the UK at some point and it strikes me as an amusing craft to do it in.

    I do need to get underway on finding mast sections here in the UK or a possible standard mast that I could use. Anybody any thoughts on anything that might be suitable?

    Or any thoughts on where I can start enquiring with UK suppliers for a one off? Eurospars? Selden? Zsparsuk? Anyone any useful experience of any of them or anyone else suitable?

    I think the dimensions are 191mm x 90mm 9.4m @ approx 3.17kg / meter so would be 30kg. Be interesting to see what a carbon mast would be both cost and how it might work on that boat?

    As a comparison:
    Pulse 600 Mast height 9.5m Main 17.3sqm Jib 7.1 sqm Spinny 25.4 sqm Weight 450kg
    Sting 600 Mast height 9.4m Main 17 sqm Jib 8.6sqm Screecher 21.4m Weight 390 non-foiling

    If the Pulse did have significantly larger spinnys then the difference downwind would be pretty massive compared to this initial Sting set up.
     
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  2. gypsy28
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: NSW Australia

    gypsy28 Senior Member

    But not super accurate....
    Firstly, Our Pulse runs a standard top down furling spinnaker that is from the factory....Not sure where this 30% larger spinnaker Len speaks of came from.....
    Secondly, Our screecher isn't any different from any other screecher in this race. We have modified our sheeting angles and techniques to allow us to carry it upwind in light air....Not rocket science....
    Thirdly, Our Pulse beat the Sting over the line on both days and we also won on PBH both days and therefore won the regatta overall (We have the trophy to prove it....) If Len wants to compare OMR results (which is kind of pointless as only 3 of the 7 boats had an OMR rating....) then he did indeed beat us on Day 1 but we beat him on Day 2. His OMR win on Day 1 would be attributed to the fact that he DIDN'T have a spinnaker onboard and therefore his rating was substantially better than ours....
    Fourthly, If anyone try's to tell you that a Pulse weighs 450kg you should laugh at them. Try closer to 520kg and that's before all the gear is loaded onboard....and yet in light upwind conditions the heavier Pulse easily accounted for the lighter Sting that has more sail area....

    We were quite surprised that we beat the Sting as it is lighter and has more sail area. We were convinced we would be chasing after if all regatta but as it turns out it was the other way around. Maybe we are just better sailors? Looking forward to our next chance at racing against it.
     
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  3. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    Some serious competitive juices bubbling up , good luck to both of you. When Len fits those magic foils you could be in trouble...ha , cheers
     
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  4. gypsy28
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: NSW Australia

    gypsy28 Senior Member

    I can't wait for him to fit the foils. I reckon we will beat him by even more.
     
  5. patzefran
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: france

    patzefran patzefran


    Try a used Hobie cat 21 mast. This the final solution I used on my Strike 20 after collapsing an aluminium Tornado mast under genaker. A little heavy but solid rock !
     
  6. Vantage475T
    Joined: Aug 2016
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    Vantage475T Vantage475T

    I'm taking data from the Pulse website which states 450kg and a sail area of 49.8 sq m while the Sting shows as 390kg and sail area of 47 sq m.

    How does Sting have more sail area? Are you talking upwind where it appears to be 25.6 sqm for Sting and 24.4 sqm for Pulse? As the race was apparently mainly downwind I'm a bit confused.

    Where is the 70kg discrepancy?

    I was hoping to get to see a Pulse here in the UK but the dealer bizarrely doesn't have one available and the Sting will provide me with ability to modify various things to exactly suit the different things I want to do with it from keeping light weight for thrashing it and making it into a decent fast solo long distance boat.

    Anyway, forgive me if I am being dim as I'm still quite new to all this.
     
  7. Vantage475T
    Joined: Aug 2016
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    Vantage475T Vantage475T

    Patzefran, thanks for that.

    Looks like a Hobie 21 mast is 29 feet or about 8.8m and sail size around 21 sqm so a fair bit down on the Sting spec.
     
  8. Vantage475T
    Joined: Aug 2016
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    Vantage475T Vantage475T

    Final update from Len as not looking to start a war here : )

    Flame on!
     
  9. patzefran
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: france

    patzefran patzefran

    Sorry, A Hobie 21 mast i 10.10 m , i.e. 33 ft
     
  10. Vantage475T
    Joined: Aug 2016
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    Location: Lymington,UK

    Vantage475T Vantage475T

    patzefran thanks for that - have you got a link for that info anywhere and sail sizes?

    Is that for the Hobie 21 cruiser not the 21 cats?
     
  11. patzefran
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    patzefran patzefran

    I have purchased a used Hobie 21 mast for my Strike 20. The mast length and profile is the same for all Hobie 21 cats, cruiser or racer. Mainsail area is 21 sq.m.
    My mainsail is 19.3 sq.m with square top, designed for a Tornado mast (9.4 m length), so the luff length is short for the hobie 21 mast. Any way I don't use the hook but a 2:1 ratio halyard.
    My jib is 8 sq.m 20180831_143824.jpg
     
  12. gypsy28
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: NSW Australia

    gypsy28 Senior Member

    I simply don't care enough to flame on. I like the Sting, its a cool boat. As I said we got the trophy so that's all that matters to me.

    I will however attach Saturdays time sheet as somehow Len seems to be confused as to where the finish line is. His claim that they were 1 second ahead over the line doesn't seem to line up with race committee times which have us finishing 25 seconds ahead.....

    Bring on next year, might have to figure out how to get the big heavy Pulse foiling
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. Vantage475T
    Joined: Aug 2016
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    Location: Lymington,UK

    Vantage475T Vantage475T

    Len's been away working for a while again and only took Sting out on Saturday for a further test. Here is his update:

    "Unfortunately not enough wind to fly but still had a chance to test foil mechanism's for first time under sail.
    The rudder elevator worked well, even at our top speed of 8knts it was easily locked and released to change angle of attack.
    Also the fwd foils were raised and lowered at various speeds without jamming.
    We jibed and tacked ok but mainsail was backed off till fully tacked then powered back on, this was satisfactory given all foils were working.
    Tiller felt normal, no strain, easy to steer so with this knowledge we feel confident of foiling successfully in stronger winds.
    I'm now heading overseas for a weeks holiday before next sailing foil tests."

    Hopefully we'll get some further updates shortly then!
     
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  14. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    From catsailingnews: (TF 10)

    TF10byJorisLugtigheid-catsailingnews.jpg
     
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