New Trimaran Foilers

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    I like Jaguars-perfect car for a $39,000 foiler.......
     
  2. bjn
    Joined: Jul 2014
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    bjn Senior Member

    I guess it's a marketing choice. UFO is taking the low price market / targeting "poor people". Rich people doesn't want to use boats which poor people use, because then they have to keep it secret to their friends that they own such a boat. So rich people will get very attracted by this adverticement, because it shows that rich people buys this boat. So then they can go buy, brag about it, and sail it feeling proud with what a cool boat for rich people they are sailing.
     
  3. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Update on Sting 600:

    Hi Doug
    A quick update, fwd foils have been completed and currently being post cured. Have attached photo of wing molds. ( the molds took a lot of time to make but now finally done, am very happy with mold set up and wings released successfully ).
    The local Coast Guard are keen to help me by tow testing for initial trimming of foil set up but I have to wait till this coming Saturday.
    Plan to sail tomorrow to check new main sheet arrangements and just get out on the water to enjoy my self, ( a day off, haha )
    If foil tests prove successful then my wife and I will drive 1,000 klms south to test sail foiling capability as the local waterways are not suitable.
    Peter Schwarzel will help with the sailing foil testing.
    Best regards
    Len Surtees

    Main Foil(wing) Molds:
    Len Surtees--4-15-19 wing molds.jpg
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  5. Doug Lord
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    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Sting 600-weather delay in tow testing. Here's a shot of the boat folded, with foils, on the trailer:

    Len Surtees boat with foils on trailer.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Sting 600 main hydrofoil design:
     
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Turns out this boat(converted 24' Diam ) was sailed with a foil on the daggerboard capable of downforce according to Vincent Prevost of VPLP.
    ====================================
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  8. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    It's a 2014 boat. Not a new trimaran foiler.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  9. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Interesting that the new maxi skippers and crews are talking down the usefulness of a lifting inverted T foil on main dagger - seems that they just add weight, drag and complexity and that the main lifting float foils (plus adjustable T rudders) do a superior job.
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ====================================

    Absolute nonsense! I've talked with Verdier and Prevost and they consider the daggerboard foil as critical to the performance of these big boats. I think Sodebo will have a daggerboard foil when they set it up to fly. According to Vincent Prevost it is NOT yet set up for flying......
    The tri's now using the daggerboard foil capable of downforce in combination with uptip ama foils and rudder t-foils* are: Maserati, Gitana 17, Macif 100, Macif 24' Test boat, Banque Populaire(new version), Fire Arrow and ,soon I hope, WOLF.
    *Fire Arrow Foil System

    VPLP about a month ago:

    ---VPLP on the daggerboard main foil:
    " On these big boats, when you ease a sail, it is a pain because it takes so long to grind it back in. But here you press a button and the angles of incidence change. And with the foil on the daggerboard you can use it to alter the flight according to the wind**. If it builds, rather than easing the sheet you increase the righting moment by increasing the angle and conversely, as it eases you can reduce it and let it fly more."

    **
    done 100% automatically on Fire Arrow/ WOLF with wand controlled main foil.(dl)

    PS- the daggerboard foil can increase RM 20% or so and you can pretty much guarantee that no rational ULTIM team is going to give up on that! The increase on Fire Arrow and WOLF is more like 30%. The extra RM is a greater gain(by a lot) than the foil drag is a loss.
    On a boat like WOLF or Fire Arrow the daggerboard foil makes it practical for a small boat to have an oversquare beam by allowing mainhull takeoff in very light air as well as dramatically increasing RM in heavier air. And since both of these boats use wand control of the mainfoil flap, the system responds instantaneously and automatically to gusts with more RM making gust response one of the greatest attributes of the Fire Arrow Foil System.(with automatic mainfoil control)
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  11. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Fire Arrow and Wolf - you have to be joking; the beyond audaciousness to mention your bath toys with full sized developed craft ... and how many metres have those pathetically and childishly over-hyped, over posted and over boasted fantasy-land contraptions actually moved? Time for you to quit your endless BS and build a craft to sit your large posterior on?
     
  12. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    So why don't you build a full size boat and show us, Doug?
     
  13. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    Bath toy is a little harsh, large swimming pool is fairer. The desperate repetition of advertising isn't unique to the US for marketing in order to brainwash, but even the yanks use a new agency or a different jingle eventually , audience burnout is a real thing, after a while it just becomes a point of irritation. To be able to glaze over , think of something else until it has passed, is a modern survival mechanism. Doug's stuff requires the viewer to immediately imagine his craft at least three times larger and it just isn't. A model is only a test for something larger and produces inexact data because air ,and water and materials aren't completely scaleable. He should be on a model forum, there is no easy provision on a television to complain directly to the author , forums are different. Conflating a 6ft long unmanned model boat into a 70 to 100 ft craft everyday by post is bloody annoying.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  14. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ===========================
    All that repetition and you still don't know what the Fire Arrow thread is about!! There has never been : " Conflating a 6ft long unmanned model boat into a 70 to 100 ft craft everyday by post is bloody annoying". You just have no idea what you're talking about. No wonder you're annoyed. In fact, you posted in the thread and asked my help-and I helped you! Apparently, that was a waste of my time.
    ---------
    TLF-Fire Arrow is 5.5' LOA and it is an exact scale model of a 19.5' full size boat. So because the model is so big vs the full size boat the results tend to be very accurate.
    Many famous designers have used RC models to test their concepts including Greg Ketterman(Hobie Trifoiler), Dr. Sam Bradfield (40' SKAT foiler), Bill Burns(CBTF-canting ballast twin foil concept), Hugh Welbourn-(DSS-Dynamic Stability Systems), Paul Larsen-(SailRocket), Alain Thebault-(Hydroptere), Yves Parlier(planing cat) and many others.

    Alain Thebault with his rc test model of the Hydroptere concept:
    31.jpg

    Yves Parlier's RC Test Model of his 60' planing cat:
    parliers cat model.jpg

    Paul Larsen's RC Test Model (sailrocket) :
    Sailrocket model testing 2.jpg

    Greg Kettermans RC Test Model of his Trifoiler concept:
    ketterman RC Test model.jpg

    Dr. Sam Bradfields RC Test Model for the foil system on his 40' SKAT:
    Flyer 3 with Skat foils-Dr. Sam.jpg

    Doug Lord's 5' Test Model of a 19.5' sport foiling tri:
    MPX Fire Arrow-First Full Flying Foiling on video-7-24-14 013 - Copy.JPG
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019

  15. Vantage475T
    Joined: Aug 2016
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    Location: Lymington,UK

    Vantage475T Vantage475T

    Update from Len Surtees on the Sting 600 foiling trimaran project.

    He has a short video which will go on his website early next week and I've attached some pics he has sent over.

    Here is his update message:
    I have attached a couple of photos showing foil set up.
    The tow tests showed that I'm on the right track. The fwd foils were not touched, only the rudder elevator needed two clicks to get the transom to fly.
    I was amazed that the foils worked at all as the turbulence from the twin outboard motors was extreme, the video clearly highlights the turbulence.
    I had planned to sail test this weekend but now postponed for several days due to friends not available to help at the moment.
    Now preparing for a two day race where up to 200 trailer boats compete. This will be a good race to showcase my STING 600 and I will be trying hard for bragging rights ,haha
    So hopefully you can see tow video next Monday on web site.
    I'm really looking forward to sail test, I now have three rudder elevator trim mechanical control linkage to try.
    All are designed to achieve the same outcome but vary in complexity, the one I prefer is the KISS type which we used successfully on our test tow.
    Peter Schwarzel the structural yacht engineer was on board and he was well pleased with results, me too, very happy, just some sailing foil testing and then draw up comprehensive buildings plans, I now have all the molds made for Rudder, Dagger Board, Rudder Elevator and fwd wings.
    It is now two years from conception to this point and although taken longer then anticipated I have thoroughly enjoyed the journey.

    This really is exactly what I've been looking for and can't wait for it all to be finalised.

    I think it looks tremendous and clearly goes very well already.
     

    Attached Files:

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