New Trimaran Foilers

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 15,665
    Likes: 220, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Sting 600 update:
    Hi Doug
    Just returned home after 2 weeks interstate working.
    Now completing several items so hopefully first test sail at end of month.
    Have attached 3 photos that you can share.
    1/ rudder case ( still need bits to weld such as tabs to mount tiller and angles top and bottom to make case rigid ) and
    3.5 HP water cooled motor
    plus mounting bracket weighs an incredible 10.5 kg ( bought motor new in box, retail AU$375
    2/ motor in running position.
    3/ now measuring main sail boom. Have all the bits for furling handle, out hall, main sheet, etc
    Hopefully within the next two weeks I can get to my web site, a lot of information on there will be deleted as it is outdated and by the new year construction plans will be ready with any mods that crop up and a shopping cart and PayPal.
    I plan to have a comprehensive set of plans, hydrofoils, composite dagger board, rudder and several metal parts along with a full set of sails to buy, all at great prices.
    Shipping container size will be 1.8m long ( 6'), 1m wide (3') and 300mm deep (1')
    That's it for now Doug, please share this, hope your well and busy.
    Best regards
    Len Surtees

    Sting 600-len surtees   1of 3.jpg

    Sting 600 len surtees 2 of 3.jpg

    Sting 600 len surtees 3 of 3.jpg
     
  2. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 15,665
    Likes: 220, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Sting 600 update:
    Hi Doug

    We tried to slide sail up mast which is sitting on two saw horses but due to laying horizontal the battens caused too much drag as they kept jamming, this would not be a problem when mast is vertical, so we just unrolled the sail along side the mast to check for correct size, all good but didn't take any photos.

    I have just completed the furling boom ( all up weight with out haul and gooseneck fitted, an amazing 4.3 kg, very light.) Also the furling crank handle is made and installed in mast so slowly ticking off the "must do" jobs. All the bits for sail controls are now completed except for some furling rope guides on the screecher bow pole.

    Today i will fit the flanges around the dagger board and rudder plugs, then start several wax's then tooling gelcoat and laminates.

    Also today i will remove trailer from boat as i want to lower the bow by 75mm ( 3" ) this means cutting off the mid and fwd plank brackets and re welding to trailer frame.

    That's it for now Doug, happy for you to share.

    best regards

    Len Surtees
     
  3. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 15,665
    Likes: 220, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    More on the F101 from catsailingnews:
    F101 Mono Foiler | Catamaran Racing, News & Design https://www.catsailingnews.com/2018/09/f101-mono-foiler.html

    Rob Andrews : " The F101 production is just starting to ramp up with boats in USA, China, Spain, Italy, France and UK, with more coming from dealer interest in Canada and Australia. We also have events starting to take place with the next TRIBAL gathering in Spain, Mar Menor from Nov 9 - 12th.

    We call it TRIBAL gathering as the class association is called the F101 TRIBE, where we use modern social communications and allow the Tribe to decide the event and boat strategy that we follow, truly being run for the owners of the F101. As part of that process we are to trial some innovative events and scoring that allow people to share boats or bring along a friend and the format allows them to compete at a level that suits them, rather than fitting in with the one option that is defined by the event organizer.

    As for the boat, its great versatility has been the true surprise, being able to:
    - Foil with your friends, family etc (Alan recently sailed with his daughters and on another sail his Father of 82!)
    - Introduce people of all ability to foiling (we use the BB Talking headsets to communicate with the sailor)
    - Allow more serious sailors to chase goals of speed, tuning and foiling manoeuvres.


    Specs:
    - Long, central hull places the rudder and main foil further apart, removing some of the limitations and bad habits that other foiling boats suffer from.
    - All carbon construction: main hull, foils, floats, beams, 2 piece mast.
    - Very simple, well thought out control systems.
    - All up weight: 75 kg.
    - Length 5.4m.
    - Beam 2.55m.
    - Sail area: 9.0m2 main + 5.5m2 gennaker.
    - Target crew weight range: 70-120 kg.
    - Take off wind speed: 8 kts.
    - Target boat speed range: 10-25 kts.

    More info at : foilingworld.co.uk
    --------------
     
  4. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 15,665
    Likes: 220, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Sting 600 update:
    Hi Doug
    Off to China in morning and back 27th October.
    Have attached pic of dagger board and rudder fitted.( also rudder blade under construction)
    Still a little work to do to complete swing beams auto lock so unfortunately no sailing trials till end of October.
    Just a few cam cleats and rope guides to fit then sailing, Doug I'm really looking forward to zipping around the Bay, just to enjoy ones creation, the fruits of labour is a feeling only those that achieve their own build can truly relate to, it is Bliss.
    Happy to share this Doug, at least it keeps those interested up to speed.
    I will have to do better with my web site but once boat is sorted and thoroughly tested I can then concentrate on it.
    Best regards
    Len Surtees


    Len Surtees 10-2-18  1.jpg Len Surtees 10-2-18   2.jpg Len Surtees 10-2-18   3.jpg
     
  5. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 15,665
    Likes: 220, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    More on the TF10 from catsailingnews.com :
     
  6. waynemarlow
    Joined: Nov 2006
    Posts: 399
    Likes: 31, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 134
    Location: UK

    waynemarlow Senior Member

    The F101 is another small foiling Tri, definately a Moth on steroids with proper Amas as training wheels. I managed to hitch a ride and report as follows.

    First I really must complement the designers and builders for what is a really well engineered product, the quality is something way beyond what you can normally see on some of the production beach cats, and although it is quite a complex design and high component count, everything seems to have a purpose and designed for that purpose.

    All to often with the foiling A's there's just a mad nest of ropes and pulleys operating foils and AOA and the likes. On the F101, one foil adjusted by a simple " pull the rope " system " and an adjustable rudder foil via the tiller AKA Moth style just makes it all simple. No forward wand and all its linkages, but a simplified wand on the back of the dagger board and T foil, it may not be the ultimate for performance ( that could be debated ) but makes the launch and fit out as practical as you can get. The builders endlessly talk about making a Foiler as uncomplicated as possible, as for most the work load of first sailing these boats is high and to get people early foiling, the boat must do the work. They have set a pretty high bar here and although there's lots of bits and pieces to adjust and finesse, once set, its set and forget. Even the design and placement of the Ama's have been set as an attempt to promote an early indicator of where and how the boat should be for it to launch up onto the foil. Everything on the boat is designed to be pragmatic about getting the job done in the least hassle at minimum cost in work load to the skipper.

    The designers spoke at great length that as yet the F101 is not a race boat ( its too early in its learning curve about how best to utilise the design ), but a pleasure boat, set up for early foiling and the exhilaration of foiling is what its job is. But to me a boat has to be more than the pleasure of just foiling. In an endeavor to get more people foil racing, they are proposing that F101 races should be designed around the boat and those who sail it ( they call it " The Tribe " ), that may not be conventional racing per-see but downwind slalom races, odd courses such as star or compass point style where competitors try to reach certain points which are becoming increasingly harder to achieve. This may not be conventional but it may well be something that we should all maybe should think as a way to get more people sailing.

    Probably for me the biggest downer was the rig, its a dingy rig, sort of a cross between a 49er and moth, its very very good looking and everything seems to work well, but its a dinghy rig and I know nothing about dinghy rigs. Wheres the rotating rig with lots of down haul and loads of main sheet. To sit with the tiller across your lap pulling a tiny 5mm line through your rear hand by the forward hand just like a laser, will have to be learnt. Line loads are just ridiculously light and getting used to locking off the Code 0 ( I think we should really just be saying big jib here as its in all intents and purposes its an over size jib ) , this is more dinghy handling than catamaran handling.

    The other biggest difference to us cat sailors is that you always feel as though you are on the wrong side of the boat with the rig always feeling like its about to come over on you. But once you get used to its stability once it has flip flopped over onto its Ama's and understand that once over on the Ama, there is loads of stability, the boat is actually quite easy to not get wet in. My own small Tri is set up to progressively use the RM of the lee Ama as any heel goes on but with the F101's Amas set so high that you end up feeling like you are sailing on a knife edge with the catch all of the Amas when things go wrong, the Ama saves your day. Why the high Amas, look up Veel Heel and you can understand why the makers are saying the performance is better than a Wasp and getting up towards a full on Moth.

    Well how does it sail. Sadly for me once again the wind gods were against me and the forecast of 4 - 6 knots was what I got, hence all the flip flopping and flailing about that I seemed to do. Everything was so marginal that getting any real feel of its true potential was a dream on one hand and an impossible task on the other. But I always say that the best boats are the ones that can be sailed in the lightest winds. Here the F101 is about as good if not better than my cats and could be sailed around low rider style at speeds that impressed me even with those foils below. Is it 49er dinghy speeds, probably not, but once you spent a bit of time in the boat, you could balance the boat out on the single centre hull and go upwind and down at will, I have to say for having so much appendage down on such a light wind day, this is a really slippery hull. The makers have already a set of caps to replace the foils if you so desire but to be honest how many of you would sail in sub 6 knot winds.

    Did we get foiling at all, there were two of us trialing the boat today, both just under or around 90 kilos and yup in one tiny zephyr of a puff, my fellow sailor was up and off, almost to his horror of what do I now do and about 50 metres on, there was inevitable drop in wind and splash down. This was such a frustrating day in some ways as the wind was there but just not quite enough. I think though that having seen how easy it was for my fellow sailor to get up onto the foils once the wind set in, even at 6 knots of wind, a seasoned sailor familiar with the boat may well have been foiling or there abouts.

    In talking to the makers, who I can only highly recommend as being true enthusiasts and gentlemen dedicated to sailing, speeds are already high with regular water speeds up around 17 knots and already a 27 knot burst being recorded, but they did emphasize they are not really interested in speed, that's pure moth territory, but more to just getting more people foiling easily.

    Over all impressions, really really good quality boat, loads of potential, but of course I will need another invite to really see the true potential ( hint hint hint ). Thanks Foilingworld to the introduction to the F101.
     
    Corley and Doug Lord like this.
  7. Lurch723
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 49
    Likes: 15, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Devon UK

    Lurch723 Junior Member

    Interesting summary Waynemarlow, sounds like you need another bite of the cherry to me?
    A little frustrating taking a quick boat out in insufficient breeze to explore the envelope in!
     
  8. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 15,665
    Likes: 220, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Sting 600 update:
    Hi Doug
    Update on STING 600
    No construction in October due to time spent in China and working away from home.
    Today the trailer will be registered allowing legal towing then final detailing in preparation for sailing. Am very happy with swing beam simple auto lock, oh so easy and quick. The local launch ramp is very busy on weekends so have organised a chase boat so video of first sail can be made on Monday 12th November weather permitting. Plan to have video on website. sting600.net
    on Wednesday 14th.
    Doug you can share this email, thanks.
    Hope all is well with you.
    Best regards
    Len Surtees
     
  9. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 15,665
    Likes: 220, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Sting 600-Len is trailering his new boat to a major race starting Monday. Here are a couple of sail pictures:
    Len Surtees 60 sails.jpg

    LenSurtees 600 asy.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  10. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 15,665
    Likes: 220, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    STING 600 sailing update(no foils)-
    Hi Doug
    Just a quick update on how STING #1 is performing.
    First sail ever on Saturday after trailering STING #1 1,000 klms started to sort rigging, Sunday second sail showing improvement, race day Monday and we won first race but second race we decided to again make improvements.
    Tuesday was a long race in 18 knt winds and we won by 55 minutes beating a Farrier Tramp which is same size ( 6m) but has a large set of sails and a huge spinnaker and has raced for several years with a fearless Skipper.
    This performance was impressive and we haven't adjusted sails yet. Still three race's to complete but strong winds are forecasted
    Best regards
    Len Surtees. You can share if you like Doug, thanks
     
    Niclas Vestman likes this.
  11. Vantage475T
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 54
    Likes: 6, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Lymington,UK

    Vantage475T Vantage475T

    I'm really interested in building this boat here in the UK. It really seems to cover a lot of what I'm after.

    The results of this first proper sailing for it are very encouraging as well:
    Race Results from Wangi RSL Amateur Sailing Club http://www.topyacht.net.au/results/wasc/2019/aumulti2018/indexyct.htm

    Hopefully we'll get some video and telemetry soon as assuming it all looks good, I'm keen to get started on this in the spring when work eases up a bit.

    I'll need to allow 18 months I think as have a kitchen refit and install another bathroom to do at home next year.... Always something in the way of being out on the water!

    Just had another email from Len and they won the next race as well even without using the gennaker when everyone else was.

    He's got some pics and videos from the event but won't be able to distribute them for a few days while he finishes the reggatta and then drives home and has a rest : )
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
  12. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 15,665
    Likes: 220, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    STING update:
    Hi Doug
    Now home, trailered boat over 2,000 klms with no problems, very easy boat to trailer.
    The last two races were abandoned due to 40 knt winds ( this meant the second race on first day that we didn't race could not be dropped as all six races needed to be completed and we only completed 3 ) this meant we had to carry a penalty along with our times being handicapped severely. We did however win all races with line honours.
    Have attached photo of poster given to us at presentation night for fastest boat in our division.
    I'm very happy with performance but will add some more buoyancy to main hull, I had originally designed main hull 800 mm wide but at last minute changed to 700 mm wide, this was a mistake so plans will be updated.
    All aspects such as outer hulls, mast, beams ( despite some critiques telling me that swing beams will have to have dolphin strikers, they proved stiff enough ) also rudder had just the slightest weather helm which is desirable, dagger board excellent, rigging excellent, and sails excellent, also will do away with bow pole swinging sideways, its not really required, just more clutter in cockpit.
    Switched on our speed puck for parts of races, we were too busy to remember to even switch it on, top speed 18 knots.
    Good news is i picked up the fwd foil plugs from Peter Schwarzel on way home, all nicely CNC machined.
    Plan to have sailing photos and short sailing video on web site this Wednesday.
    Now having a couple of days rest then next week start on wing foils.
    Best regards
    Len Surtees
     
  13. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 15,665
    Likes: 220, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

     
  14. Vantage475T
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 54
    Likes: 6, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Lymington,UK

    Vantage475T Vantage475T

    Len has posted the first short video from the Oz multihull championships:


    It looks like the main hull is a bit low and the minimal dihedral is leaving the windward float a bit close to the water?

    That does look like some reasonable wind with pretty flat water so if it were blowy and more choppy it might slow things down a bit?

    Have to say though, I really like the look of it.
     

  15. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 15,665
    Likes: 220, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Melbourne, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    The lee hull doesn't bury like so many small tris in that kind of wind. It sure does look good....Can't wait to see her on foils!
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.