New Trimaran Foilers

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    This will be a companion to the "New Catamaran Foilers" thread and hopefully
    have as many boats as the cat thread.
    --The first boat in this thread has to be the converted MOD 70 -formerly Gitana and now Maserati. The first tri since Hydroptere to 100% fly.
    --Another foiler under development is the Exocet 19 by Perspective Yacht Design with the same basic configuration as the Super Foiler below.
     
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Super Foiler

    This is a wild new(under development) wannabe foiler from Morrelli and Melvin. An uptip foil in each ama and a rudder t-foil in each ama.......no more details yet.

    "Welcome to the home of the SuperFoiler Grand Prix. After more than 18 months of work we are now airborne and have locked away the design of the SuperFoiler with Morrelli & Melvin. Featuring unprecedented aerodynamic & hydrodynamic efficiency along with a maximum possible power to weight, the SuperFoiler will be the focus of a fully televised circuit of racing commencing in 2017. Keep up to date here over the coming months. ‪#‎superfoiler‬"

    http://superfoiler.com/

    https://www.facebook.com/SuperFoiler/


    click:
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Tom.151
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    Tom.151 Senior Member

    Clearly designed to be a 100%-foiling "trimaran" - certainly not what I'd expect from M&M for a Trimaran ;)

    But then again this is a one design destined for commercial endeavor.

    Will be really interesting to see those shorty ama bows work IRL
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Super Foiler

    The foil system looks just like a cat system. Bound to be fast considering the designers. I guess-depending on how light a wind it starts to foil- the amas or main hull ,for that matter, won't have much relevance to the performance of the boat?
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Super Foiler

    ============================
    Pete Melvin talks about the new boat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYQOMcNZ7CQ
     
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Maserati

    Maserati foiling---- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i5H_Q1e2uI from catsailingnews.com
    Appears to me that the port foil is still a "C" foil while the stb foil is an uptip foil. The difference is automatic altitude control with the uptip foil.......

     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Maserati with Fire Arrow Configuration

    Startling discovery that Maserati is the first fullsize tri using a lifting foil on the daggerboard similar to the Fire Arrow:
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/mu...f-righting-trimaran-test-model-36058-159.html

    Watch the video above very carefully and you can see the foil on the daggerboard-this is so cool I can hardly stand it!

    More: http://maserati.soldini.it/


    First* trimaran in the world to fly with effortless stability on the horizontal loading-bearing surface of her centerboard, Maserati Multi70 brilliantly puts into practice Guillaume Vernier and his Team’s idea of flying on three resting points using a load-bearing centerboard, L-foil and a rudder instead of the two rudders and single foil adopted on America’s Cup cats.
    Giovanni Soldini and his Team are engaged in a new challenge as they endeavour to turn Maserati Multi70 into the first ocean-going flying trimaran. An ambitious project that spans not just Guillaume Vernier’s excellent work (he worked on the modifications to her appendages) but also over 4.000 nautical miles of sailing clocked up by the Team this summer.
    The straight central daggerboard plays a revolutionary role in this new flying trim as the horizontal load bearing surface at its end generates lift, raising the boat out of the water. “When Maserati Multi70 rises up on her lateral foil and rudder, the daggerboard wing acts as a third resting point – the central and largest one”.
    Tests in wind of 40 knots have demonstrated that Maserati Multi70 is now much more stabilized and able to fly in conditions unthinkable before. Safely tackling also big seas.



    * Wrong-the Fire Arrow was the first trimaran in the world to fly on a daggerboard foil in combo with uptip foils on each ama.
     
  9. David Cooper
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    David Cooper Junior Member

    I expect the next one will be able to generate downforce too - they're gradually evolving towards your solution. Hope you can get yours built first.

    "First* trimaran in the world to fly with effortless stability..."

    Arguably correct because of the last three words, but then models never seem to behave as well as the full size boats.
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Maserati with Fire Arrow Configuration

    We really don't know anything about their main foil. They may already have some active control or maybe manual control. Downforce on such a big boat may not be the best idea unless it was designed for it from scratch. But using the main foil to take off in lighter air will be extremely advantageous. If you compare this latest video with the previous on you can clearly see the advantage of the single main foil.
    Currently, they are only using one uptip foil and that is on the stb ama. The other foil is a "C" foil w/o any intrinsic altitude control. I would guess they will change that out.....
    Many, many designers have proven their concepts with models that did work exactly as designed. The history of the use of RC models in testing is a list of the major innovators in sailboat and foil design. It's a myth to say models "never seem to behave as well as the full size boats."
     
  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Maserati

    From the Maserati site:
    1)In the spirit of ongoing experimentation, the Team is now working hard on readying the second flying foil and making modifications to the foil system to deliver better control. They are doing likewise with the sail plan. The overall aim is, naturally, to boost Maserati Multi70’s performance still further. The team is also lightening the boat which it is estimated will leave the yard on October 10. A short period of sea trials will then begin off La Spezia before she sets a course for Malta for her Rolex Middle Sea Race debut on October 22.
    -----
    2) For her two upcoming events (the Rolex Middle Sea Race starting October 22 2016 and RORC Transatlantic Race starting November 26 2016), Maserati Multi70 will be adopting this new appendage configuration which has the advantage of allowing adjustment of the height of the foil and the horizontal load-bearing surface at the end of the centreboard (rather than the rudder) as well as the angle of incidence of the latter surface, thereby efficiently minimising slamming. This is a further guarantee of safe, stable sailing for a genuinely futuristic trimaran.
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Maserati /Gitana

    Interesting that when Maserati was Gitana she had a port and stb uptip foil and now she only has the stb foil:

    Gitana pix by Yvan Zedda:


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. David Cooper
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    David Cooper Junior Member

    Things behave differently if you make them smaller or bigger. Whenever I see video of model foilers they jump around in wild ways which don't match up to the behaviour of full size boats. A lot of that may be down to the inability of the person in control to react to events several times more quickly than normal (which is physically impossible for them without shrinking their brain down to the same scale), but they certainly do look less stable. When people attack your Fire Arrow model's performance they aren't taking that into account, and if you don't spell out that there is such a difference between models and full size boats, you're underselling your design..
     
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Model Myths

    The second Fire Arrow video showed the boat pitching up and jumping but that was due to a rudder problem and wands that were too long(and to the skipper). The last Fire Arrow video showed the boat working perfectly even in waves that were "bigger" than the very light wind. She rolled once when a powerboat wake came thru but never came off the foils until we had to stop because of land. She had perfect pitch stability.
    I designed and built an RC trimaran platform that Dr. Bradfield used to test the foil configuration for his SKAT 40' foiler-the model worked perfectly. The key is to understand what you can effectively test on a model.
    Hugh Welbourn(DSS) ,Paul Larsen(SailRocket), Yves Parlier(Planing cats), the CBTF guys ,Alain Thebault(Hydroptere), Greg Ketterman(Hobie Trifoiler/Longshot) and many others have used RC boats to test their concepts. If the test models were unstable or didn't work they would not have gone forward.
    It is the fact that a model can work well in illustrating a full size boats performance cost effectively that makes top innovators continue to use them.
     

  15. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member


    World on Water July 08.16 Sailing TV News. Soldini's MOD70...

    there is some commentary over that stock video; as of july
    -they were running foils from a new source and were very pleased with the result
    -the T-foil rudders had trim tabs.
    -finished flat water testing -excited to get in the rough stuff.
    -no comment on the dagger T -odd that they don't mention something so significant.

    They don't say so but it follows logically that the crew controls the tabs continuously as needed and that the dagger board would have course pitch control -like an airplane. The dagger would be adjusted for pitch of the boat and the rudder foil tabs would control height. Based on the lines going to the rudder I presume the tabs are hydraulic -does anyone know? Does anyone know what rule limitations there are on foil control?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynkVZ4q6PEM
     
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