New range of Tony Grainger Trimarans

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Corley, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,750
    Likes: 178, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    I thought this deserved a thread of it's own. Good to see Tony stepping back into a field in which he has had so much success. Link thanks to MarkL on SA multihull forum

    http://www.rocketfactorytrimarans.com/
     
  2. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
    Posts: 1,817
    Likes: 58, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 608
    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    I didnt know he was out of the field. As usual, great looking tris which, it goes without saying,will perform like they look.
     
  3. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,750
    Likes: 178, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    Maybe stepping out of the field wasn't quite the right term. He had removed his stock plans from the website and if you wanted a trimaran design it had to be custom. Nice to see all the boats so thoroughly updated. His folding 30' design looks like it will offer similar performance to Farriers F32sr. The larger trimarans are certainly smart looking boats with good float buoyancy and should be great to sail. I can see why he has focussed on cats in recent years the ratio of sales of cat designs must be 50 to 1 or greater to tris, but the trimarans have their own appeal in the way they sail and handle.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  4. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 437
    Likes: 11, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 67
    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Gooday Corley & Steve. His multi's are sure good looking vessels. I'm also pleased that he's 'continuing' in his role as a 'leader' in this field.

    I'm supprised the both the 42' & the 50' are so heavy. None the less - I'm sure they will go quickly. I see the 'sailing world' is all a 'talk' about the new 'Rockets' as the designs are also featured in - crew.org.nz - which is great for all of us interested in the future of multihulls. Ciao, james
     
  5. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,750
    Likes: 178, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    I could not see any suggested weights but there is a section of the site that suggests foam/carbon sandwich will be the construction method. I cant see a weight for the boats in the specs only displacement at DWL of 5144kg for the 42 and 9019kg for the 52 sounds generous and capable of carrying a good payload.
     
  6. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 437
    Likes: 11, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 67
    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    O.K. Corley - what's the relationship between 'displacement' & 'expected' payload in very ruff terms - 40% of or 60% of - displacement ? ? ? At either figure - for 3 ot 5 people for up-to 5 weeks the estimated payload is still a long way short of what is required for MY safety. I know that you & I are not in agreement on this one - but time will show which one is correct. I'd rater be 50 mm above DWL than 100 mm below it - just for safety sake - regardless of the sailing efficiency - which I'd have a very hard time coping without ! ! !

    I've contacted Tony directly & hope he'll come in here & respond - as he has been very up-front with me.

    Thanks Tony & let's hope we all learn a lot from such an experienced world class designer. I for 1 will be waiting. Ciao, james
     
  7. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,750
    Likes: 178, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

  8. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,750
    Likes: 178, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

  9. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,750
    Likes: 178, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

  10. oceancruiser

    oceancruiser Previous Member

    Siver raven you better contact TONY and get him to respond or he will not be selling many designs including his new 50 footer.


    Posters shouldn't post his designs or works untill he responds.

    OC
     
  11. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,750
    Likes: 178, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    I'll post what I please OC as with every design it's buyers beware and I'm sure if you contacted Tony he would give you a ballpark figure based on a weight study.

    I can understand why he doesn't want to publish figures as there are so many variables in fitout, equipment and construction method that will have a bearing on the estimate even which interior layout you choose. The 52' in 100% carbon will be a very expensive boat indeed.

    Silver Raven is a top bloke even if we don't always agree on things and I'm not sure the balance he wanted to strike between weight and performance was achievable in a performance trimaran as his payload requirements ran more to keelboat and large cruising catamaran levels.

    If we factored in the weight as 60% of displacement it would be about 3,600kgs of payload pretty generous in my eyes for a trimaran. If we worked Silver's more optimistic figure of weight as 40% of displacement it would be 5,400kgs just how much junk do you need to carry? Keeping in mind that trimarans are more of a boat for a couple or small family in most cases. No multihull I've been on including cats (one was Cat2 compliant) has run to anywhere near that level of weight in equipment, safety gear and tankage.
     
  12. oceancruiser

    oceancruiser Previous Member

    He can explain all that can't he so in the interests of his designs one would have thought he would. He is supposed to be the expert. Not relying on some non expert to advertise his non complete detailed information designs.

    Also his response can be confirmed or challendged by the other more knowledgable designers and peers members on this forum.

    There is the aspect of average weight in general

    After all it is called boat design, The website. Plus quite few members visit this site for second, third opinions re designs. So if a designer does not respond a big question mark hangs about the design.

    No disrespect intented Corley.

    OC
     
  13. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,750
    Likes: 178, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    That's the point though OC he cant give an accurate weight until the specs and equipment are finalized it would be irresponsible of him to publish a weight that turned out to be false and a large variation can occur in a number of area eg aluminium mast versus carbon a larger engine the list goes on. What is the point of publishing a payload figure that could be completely bogus?

    I may be a non expert (cant see anywhere that I've claimed to be anything other than a well read amateur) but I am in favour of people being informed about what is available in terms of designs. The rest is up to the buyer who should approach the purchase if they choose to make it with due diligence that the boat fits their requirements.

    We can examine the numbers when the first boat is built and it's specs published as they have been for the first RAW 30 trimaran.

    From the Youtube video

    Vital Stat's...
    LOA: 9.2m (30' 2")
    Beam: 6.884m (22' 7")
    Beam folded: 2.50m (8' 2")
    Draft (hull only): 0.464m (1' 6")
    Mast length: 14m (41')
    All up Weight: 1345 kg (2,965 lbs)
    Hull: Infused Carbon Fibre
    Mainsail: 37.8 sqm (406sqft)
    Jib: 21.37 sqm (230sqft)
    Code zero: 39.3 sqm (423sqft)
    Asymmetric: 90 sqm

    Tony G has posted up in Sailing Anarchy if you want to head over and bust his chops about some perceived injustice:

    http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=149761

    On the RAW30:

    Firstly I don't believe I said the boat would be a little heavier than the Seacart. I believe I said it would not be as light as the Seacart.

    This boat was never intended to be a grand prix racer and comparisons with the Seacart 30 are not valid unless you point out some of the important differences. The Seacart 30 has tube beams. They are very light and practical and they work fine but they don't fold. I don't know the interior volume of the Seacart but I suspect it is considerably less than the RAW30. The Seacart 30 is purpose specific. You can't buy a less expensive version using the same hulls that offers up to six berths, a settee and enclosed head. And if the price suggested for the Seacart 30 on this forum is correct or even close to the money then the price difference is significantly higher than the weight difference.

    The Airplay trimarans are designed as a production boat to fill a gap in the production boat market. That gap existed because the boats that employ the Farrier folding system until now have never taken advantage of modern multihull technology to optimise the performance of the boats. And that's exactly what I set out to do when Richard Ward approached me to design these boats in June 2011.

    I believe Corsair have built and sold well over 1000 boats and growing. Boats like the Seacarts are great. But they will never be built and sold in those numbers.

    Early in 2012 Richard took the decision not to tool up for the new boats and built the Cruz 950 instead. I had designed two models based on the same hull and cabin shapes, one with aft cabin, one with open cockpit. And there was talk of an all carbon version with the mast further aft and a bigger rig. This boat only ever got to concept stage when I was with Corsair. It's the boat we're discussing here now.

    In May 2012 I was approached by Hudsons and I showed them the drawings for the production folding trimarans. We made an agreement to put them into production starting with the RAW30. I never expected the RAW30 to be a big seller, it was intended more as a flagship for the Airplay brand and specifically the Sport and Sports plus models. But we already have a second RAW30 ordered and under construction and I believe two more orders are close to being confirmed. I expect the Sport and Sport plus version will be sailing before the end of the year.

    Regarding the question about twin rudders, taller mast, foils and canting rigs; The twin rudders are a certainty as an upgrade. We just have to make a small adjustment to the case and they bolt straight on the transoms. It is likely the RAW will offer different rig heights to allow for a variety of wind conditions around the world, but the other production boats will probably only offer two rig heights. Keep in mind that even at 14m and carbon construction the mast can be a handful to raise and lower if you are going to be trailering often. The other features are under development or under consideration. They have to be user friendly, reliable and reasonably priced. We have to consider all of these factors carefully.

    Having said that, We have a hugely enthusiastic and skilled team on this project. The guys looking after the construction are from Hakes Marine who build offshore racing yachts from the world's leading designers, and are also the builders of the SL33. Scott McCook is looking after marketing and sales in Asia and possibly some other areas. Scott is very well known for his exploits in multihulls, high speed power boats and motorbikes. He's one of the top multihull sailors in Asia and is highly regarded amongst fellow competitors at events like the Kings Cup. Between myself, Scott, and the Hakes team we are committed to getting these boats to the absolute pinnacle in construction, design technology and support, within the intended market spectrum. And we will continue to pursue all avenues of development to keep the designs at the peak.

    Tony G
     
  14. oceancruiser

    oceancruiser Previous Member

    I guess thats why people don't buy second hand multihulls the requirements are so precise and need to be custom built.

    OC
     

  15. Grey Ghost
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 194
    Likes: 9, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 94
    Location: california

    Grey Ghost Senior Member

    They hold their value pretty well compared to other boats.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.