new pride of Norweigian sunk after SERIES of bungles

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Squidly-Diddly, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Not sure about Norway but when USN had a series of similar smashups the emphasis on all sorts of Political Correctness and Social Engineering "training" in lieu of basics like "rules of the road" was blamed. Actually running the ship became less of a priority.

    You'd think today that getting a ship around other much slower ships would be trivial, given all the nice radar etc. I'm guessing they didn't just have one guy with steering and throttle looking at a nice big radar map of channel and other ships. Probably one guy(or gal) looking into darkness at distant lights of various colors, one looking at a radar screen barking out data, and the one looking at the distant lights barking orders to the one on steering.


    I don't think anyone can explain the last few Secretary of Air Force office holders of at least last TWO Administrations. I guess it counts if their fathers flew planes. I guess its a good thing the USAF doesn't do any "near peer engagements".
     
  2. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Such hogwash speculation that women would be the cause.

    The most likely cause of the Pacific Theater trouble with the USN was the idea they can outrun freighters.

    Bunch of women won the 2018 r2ak in a monohull for heaven's sake.
     
  3. keith66
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    keith66 Senior Member

    I dont recall seeing or reading anything about women on the bridge, what amazes me is that the frigate was running at a speed of 17.5 knots into a confined channel with its Ais initially switched off & apparently unlit as well.
    I even heard a tale that the Russians jammed the frigates GPS, I think it far more likely that a combination of poor seamanship & aquavit did for them, As for the word "blocks" Perhaps it was the norwegian for "Bollocks" as they realised what was about to happen?
     
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  4. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    So, are these the guys or the gals talking . . :rolleyes: - ‘‘Radio and Radar HNM Helge Ingstad collision TRANSLATED’’¹


    ‘‘ Radio and radar logs from the collision between the Norwegian frigate HNoMS Helge Ingstad, Nato designation F313, and the tanker Sola TS in Hjeltefjorden, north of Bergen, on November 8, 2018. ’’

    The source² is also Norwegian, which I don't speak, but it sounds to me those damn ladies speak with twisted voices . . :eek:

    ¹ I would rather say the radio communications are TRANSCRIBED³ from spoken Norwegian to written Norwegian in the video.

    ² ‘‘Hør samtalen mellom skipene’’ = ³ ‘‘Hear the conversation between the ships’’

    ³ Nice to click the loudspeaker button, for me it's a lady talking Norwegian . . :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  5. keith66
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    keith66 Senior Member

    Looked at that again, Is it me or did the frigate start to turn to port at the last minute instead of going to starboard as instructed?
     
  6. Magnus W
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    Magnus W Senior Member

    Interesting audio, too bad we can't get something akin to CVR-recording froms the bridges to go with the radio traffic.

    The preliminary report quoted in the link doesn't say much but I would be very surprised if the military vessel won't get the major part of the blame once everything's settled. Poor CRM (or BRM if you will) on behalf of the warship led to loss of situational awareness. Too high self esteem (as well as lack of CRM) led to that no actions were taken to remedy the situation which is most likely the direct cause of the collision.
    But I suspect that the Sola will get some bashing too as the radar suggests it was slow/unwilling to react on what was first an unidentified echo. It's not that uncommon for merchants to be a tad sick of official vessels running sans AIS and lights. A mindset like "if they're so stupid I ain't gonna move" in combination with a probable misinterpretation of the radar signature as coming from a smaller vessel (many/most modern military vessels have a reduced trader signature), as in "no threat to me" may well have contributed too. Given the short time it took from Sola asking VTS about the unknown vessel, as well as lacking an effort to hail it directly, would seem to indicate this.
    It would also be interesting to know if running dark and at speed in crowded waters is per the Norwegian navy SOP but I doubt we'll ever now. The decision to do this is however what most likely what started to line up the holes in the Swiss cheese model to begin with.
    Trying to blame it on the Sola running too many deck lights and therefor making the navigation lights hard to see is BS. While being somewhat annoying, especially on cruise ships, it's hardly a contributing factor. From the audio it's clear that the warship is somewhat uncertain about its exact position (as well as event perhaps Solas heading but that should be evident via AIS and radar).

    The only thing we CAN know is that this was in no part something that can be attributed to women on the bridge. Unless virtue signaling on part of the Norwegian navy has led to the recruitment of sub standard personnel but if so then it's a problem with certain individuals, not their sex per se.
     
  7. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Speed is the downfall of many.

    I get a kick out of what I interpret as someone instructing the other boat to change course. This is a full plume male tom turkey in spring where he expects the other turkey to just leave instead of bash into him.

    The idea political correctness is the cause has merit, but only if you mean noone had the balls to tell the bridge commander on the frigate to slow the hell down. Based on the radio traffic; it seemed there was even time to reverse engines.

    Instead the radio operator is telling the other ship to run aground?
     
  8. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Russian tanker watch saw a fairly small radar image moving at 17kts in a narrow channel and figured "must be speed boat" and forgot about it, even as it closed and seemed on collision course. Pretty sure ocean going ships are used to being approached by little boats full of curious boaters giving the guests and kids a nice close look.
     

  9. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Thread: Things learned the hard way ---> post #174
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
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