New Memeber with a question

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by kleenbreeze, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. kleenbreeze
    Joined: Jun 2020
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    Location: Spain

    kleenbreeze Junior Member

    OK, so I am a new member who stumbled upon this site while googling around for information about beam:length ratios for multihulls. I am interested in locating a qualified person to draft plans for a new build.
    What is the appropriate thread for that purpose, or do I need to open one of my own, and if so what subforum?
    Thanks, Tom Whaley
     
  2. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    TANSL Senior Member

    What do you need a qualified draftsman, that is, someone who draws very well, or a qualified designer?
     
  3. kleenbreeze
    Joined: Jun 2020
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    Location: Spain

    kleenbreeze Junior Member

    both, but what I want is an extremely simple craft.
     
  4. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Welcome to the Forum Tom.

    The best way to start might be to tell the forum as much as possible about what you want your multihull to be able to do for you.
    For instance will it be a sailing multihull or power?
    Catamaran or trimaran?
    Racing (if sail) or cruising?
    If power, what sort of cruising speed / range?
    How much accommodation is required?
    What is the budget available?

    The above would form a very basic 'Statement of Requirements' - and you will not get anywhere very fast unless you can try to define this as comprehensively as possible. The more information you provide, the easier it is (usually!) to work up a design.

    In addition, the odds are that there is already a suitable design out there just waiting for you, but you have not found it yet.
    If you describe what you want on here, somebody might know of a 'ready made' design that will be suitable..

    If you are interested in sailing multihulls, have a browse through this thread on the Multihull forum. Be warned though, it is VERY long - currently 72 pages!
    Multihull Structure Thoughts https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/multihull-structure-thoughts.62361/
     
  5. kleenbreeze
    Joined: Jun 2020
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    Location: Spain

    kleenbreeze Junior Member

    Thanks for the info, bajansailor. So this would be the place to post what I need? OK

    I need a cruising bluewater multihull for the purpose of living aboard with 2-4 people max but with plenty of space. I would like it to be energy autonomous (sail, regen, solar) electric shaft drives, and extremely simple and cheap to build in every respect. I am anticipating a build in ply/glass/epoxy with or without some infusion and am looking into options like bamboo veneers instead of whatever passes for marine plywood these days. 16 meters in length +/-, half that in beam, designs that allow for flat panel const with minimum compound curvatures. Low COE rig maybe a wrap around wingsail gaff rig. The closest thing I have found is the Wharram designs but they seem to be fading out and can't even respond to inquiries anymore. Though I am sure they still sell plans. But I like their ridiculously simple construction, mechanisms, affordability, etc. And I like the lines of some of their vessels. Performance is not my priority, neither is modernity. Ease of build, low costs, primitive proven systems, low tech solutions that can be repaired or replaced anywhere on earth are what I am looking for. But with some flair and artistry. Love the S Pacific influence on some of Wharram's designs. Wharram copycats might be my best option. what have aI left out.......?
     
  6. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 102
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    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Hi kleenbreeze [edit: sorry, don't know where "openness" came from. I tried to be very careful, but spell check decided it knew better than I. Please accept my apologies, "kleenebreeze"],
    Obviously you are looking for a bluewater world cruiser. Sounds like you plan to build it yourself? You mentioned bamboo alternatives to plywood. What area of the world are you working on this project in and what experience and skill in sailing and construction are you starting with?

    This sound like an intriguing plan of yours. Not trying to be crass or to pry, but I get the sense you have very limited resources. Have you considered finding a used hull and doing a refit from there? I suspect it would save you considerable money and time. If you want the accomplishment of building your own boat, awesome, I'm with you on that.

    Seaworthiness being the primary concern, boats that sail well I would consider more seaworthy than a comparable boat that doesn't sail as well. Besides more flexibility in avoiding bad weather, a strong performer handles the need to drive up waves better, they are more stable due to their speed and tracking, there's more, but I think you get my point. So, don't dismiss the need for performance just because it seems like a headache to design in.

    Good luck with your project and I look forward to following along, so keep us posted.

    -Will (Dragonflies)
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  7. kleenbreeze
    Joined: Jun 2020
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    Location: Spain

    kleenbreeze Junior Member

    I have resources and considerable experience building machinery and designing/inventing. I just think that boats built with "marine products" are incredibly poor investments of time, energy and money. Boats can be built that perform well enough for most people's purposes (cruising esp) with much lower complexity, cost, and reliance on high tech/high cost inputs. I prefer every part of that direction. That said you need real expertise in boatbuilding, and design to make that possible without compromising safety and utility.
    Unfortunately I have character flaws. I am a perfectionist. I can't live aboard a boat that was poorly constructed or designed and I have really high standards and a long history of diy whenever possible. Fixing up a used boat is prob not a good idea for me. Better to custom make something that is exactly what I actually want than to try to rehabilitate something that was poorly conceived 10-30 years ago.
     
  8. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Tom, have a look at Richard Woods' site - he started off working for James Wharram after he left college, and sailed trans-atlantic with him on Tehini. So he is very familiar with the concept - but I think he has much improved it with his designs.
    Here is a link to his larger cats over 30' -
    Sailing Catamarans - First Choose a Design http://sailingcatamarans.com/index.php/designs-2/5-catamarans-over-40ft
    Be aware though that Richard specifically mentions this -
    "We do not recommend home builders to attempt a boat over 40 ft unless experienced and want a boat for charter or long term cruising. Most families will find that boats under 40 ft will comfortably meet their needs."

    You mention "Ease of build, low costs,......" re Wharram designs - there are many who will disagree with this!
    They might appear to be so initially, but I think you would probably find that Richard's designs would be easier to build.
    You could even ask Richard for his thoughts about a wrap around gaff rig - he occasionally posts on here.
    Richard Woods https://www.boatdesign.net/members/richard-woods.15041/
     
  9. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    TANSL Senior Member

    That does not exist, fortunately, it would be very boring.
     
  10. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Look into origami steel construction.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] metal catamaran – Sailing Maiweh https://maiweh.wordpress.com/tag/metal-catamaran/

    http://www.origamimagic.com

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  11. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    These are 'relative' concepts, so it becomes a matter of "simpler and cheaper that what ?" Even the simplest boat of the size you mention, likely won't be cheap, by any average perception of "cheap" and the cheapest, not likely a simple matter of building, by most people's idea of a "simple" task.
     
  12. kleenbreeze
    Joined: Jun 2020
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    Location: Spain

    kleenbreeze Junior Member

    Thanks, bajansailor! This is exactly the kind of information I was hoping to find on this forum. Very much appreciate your input.
    Hey Will, thanks, I ran a metal fab shop for a few decades and have been aware of oragami hull construction for a while. Steel is a little heavy, and it doesn't get along with salty water real well. I am still open to working with steel as a hull material but composites are a lot lighter, easier to work with and just as strong. Steel absorbs impacts much better so from a safety standpoint it has merits. And steel has to be insulated whereas composites are born insulated. Aluminum is a good option. I am considering it. It also needs to be insulated but I think it's strength to weight is pretty close to many composites. It isn't as stiff/unit of weight. Stiffness matters a lot. Maybe if enough stresses are built in to the oragami folds it would be stressed enough to remain stiff, dunno.
     
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  13. kleenbreeze
    Joined: Jun 2020
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    Location: Spain

    kleenbreeze Junior Member

    yeah it is relative. Paying more than $500K for a Lagoon 44' cat is expensive. And stupid imo. You should be able to build a functional live aboard that size for 1/3 that cost.
     
  14. Rumars
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Location: Germany

    Rumars Senior Member

    Much less money needed, just follow the lead Atom Voyages - Hans Klaar on Building and Sailing the Polynesian Double Canoe Ontong Java https://www.atomvoyages.com/articles/sailor-interviews/327-hans-klaar-building-and-sailing-the-polynesian-double-canoe-ontong-java.html

    Or you could buy used: 1985 Custom Spronk catamaran Catamaran for sale - YachtWorld https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/custom-spronk-catamaran-3500841/
     

  15. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Welcome, kleenbreeze.
    Cheaper isn't cheaper if it can't withstand marine environment. Bamboo degrades much more swiftly than marine plywood.
     
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