New low-cost "hardware store" racing class; input on proposed rules

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Petros, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. Sailor Alan
    Joined: Mar 2014
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Having designed, built and raced Cherubs and Moths in years past, I recognize the trend and the consequences. I was attracted to this class as it requires, through the racing if nothing else, an all round performance under differing pay loads, ie 200lb to perhaps 600lb, including rowing if the wind falls light in a long 'raid' type race.

    I think THIS requirement will keep the boats more like the 'Mirror' and related classes of 'all round' boats, at least I hope so.

    Remember, the rules require carrieing the boat across the beach and launching it, with all launching equipment to be carried on the boat during the race. This alone requires innovative launch systems, restricts foils, and requires benign stowage for the equipement, wheels etc, involved. It probably eliminates inflatable elements due to deployment time, and all this under $600US.

    Its hard to imagine a modern extreme cherub, or older skinny hull moth accomidating this, especially the stowage, and >600lb load.

    On a recent visit to Port Townsend, I was very surprised at the wind force there. Far more than usually experienced on Lake Union for instance.
     
  2. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Well sort off, but not really. Richard is building a varient of his comercialy available dinghy, with wings, and basically optimised for the light >200lb end of the load capability scale. It should win all the light weight, and light wind races.

    Our three boats are designed for the >600lb end of the load scale, though perfectly capable of sailing well with reduced sail area, and only 200lb aboard. The narrow waterline, and extreme flair assist in this. One of ours is heavily influenced by the Mirror, with a pointy bow and modern dingy rig. The other two are influinced by the Merlin Rocket, if anything, and have exadurated flair on 'flat' bottoms. There they depart dramatically, having completely different rigs, construction, buoyancy, etc.
     
  3. macbeath
    Joined: Jul 2015
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    macbeath Junior Member

    Interesting. I'll see if I can find the time to build.
     
  4. Segler
    Joined: Apr 2015
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    Segler Junior Member

    Figure on three- to five hundred hours. Unless you do it in Port Townsend which is located in a time-warp. There you can do it in three days.

    Here is my BLUE HERON after four months.
     

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  5. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    But if you look at the "fun beach cat" variants that Hobie makes they often have wings to make the sailing more comfortable.

    RW
     
  6. macbeath
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    macbeath Junior Member

    Maybe it's the beach part of the equation. It seems like wings would be a pain around docks, but perhaps there's a way around that.

    I was thinking of something like a Merlin Rocket, but those have little initial stability and little reserve stability. The design above picks up a lot of stability when the chine goes under, but as you load up the boat, you get a wider waterline, so it might not be competitive.

    Anyway, a lot of how well the boats do will involve how well the rigs work.
     
  7. SukiSolo
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Not necessarily true, it is very dependent on the design. Both a V or semi circular midship section are a little tippy or difficult to hold at a constant angle. Something like the Phantom has very little initial stability, but once the chine hits the water it has lots.

    Yes, I've sailed some of the older winged Moths etc etc and quite a lot of 12s' and Merlins amongst others....;)
     
  8. macbeath
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    macbeath Junior Member

    My design is stitch and goo, which goes together pretty quickly. I think if I can get a week off work, which is unlikely, I can build the boat, provided I keep the rig simple.
     
  9. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    I suspect the low budget and various types of race configurations will keep this class from becoming too "extreme".

    I want to clarify that the port Townsend Edensaw challange is done over the Wooden Boat festival weekend and not part of a "hardware" class event. There you only have the weekend to build it; You start building on Friday morning, have all day saturday, and last year allowed you to build, paint, finish right up to the time you float the boat at 1 pm on sunday.

    The Judging criteria of the Edensaw event is arbitrary and largely a mystery. There is no race, it just has to float (though the winner last year was taking on water, as were several other entries), there is no limit to size or purpose of boat, only that it be muscle or sail powered (no motor), they judge the one they like the best, and no one knows what that means. You only have to build the hull at the event, and all lumber can be prefinished and premarked, stringers can be cut to profile or dimensional size, but not to length. So any appendages like rudders, sails and dagger boards, and I assume fittings, seats, etc can be prefabricated or purchased. There is no cost component of the score, and no limit on tools or how it is built, as long as it is done within your work space (10'x20' space as I recall), but I think open flames are prohibited.

    So if you want to build a boat that meets these "hardware" class rules at the Edensaw challenge, you have to stay within the hardware class budget, and only have to build the bare hull there, within the allotted time. You will still have to spend quite a bit of time gathering materials, laying it out, planning your build, some even had forms and tooling they brought. Sails and rigging, rudders, dagger boards, etc can be premade, or made there too, but there is no reason to.

    The Edensaw challenge is unrelated to this "hardware" class boat, there were very different kinds of boats built last year, no one was very fast or really for racing, one was almost unusable it was so unstable (they reduced a larger hull to make it a one person boat). My partner and I were the only ones that built a sailboat, and it was the only one large enough to take two adults and go out on Puget sound (which we did, it was a 16' x 10' trimaran). But that was not enough to impress the judges, we were tied for third. After the event, Richard Woods challenged me to a design/build contest next year within the Edensaw challenge, that after the contest we would have a friendly gentleman's race with our new designs that we built at the event. So we decided to try out my "hardware" class rules (that so many of you were instrumental in forming) within our friendly competition within their competition.

    Anyone else that shows up to join us on sunday afternoon of the festival, with a similar boat is welcome. it is not an "officially" sanctioned event, only a friendly "test run" of the concept. It does not have to be built in two and a half days unless you want to enter the Edensaw challenge and do it there.

    I choose to do it there because otherwise I would start it, and it would sit in my garage for several years (with a good chance of never being finished). By entering the contest it forces me to build it over a weekend, even though it would not be as pretty or as carefully built if I spend several hundred hours building it at home. A great way to be motivated to choose a simple quick build design, and than go out and have fun with it.
     
  10. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    I agree about the judging!! It did indeed seem bizarre that the winning boat was leaking badly and it's rower had to bail the whole time. Neither my boat nor Petros' leaked. Petros was sailing his around in the Sail By, mine is used regularly as my Skoota 28 tender

    I also agree with his "starting and not finishing' comment. Building it in 2 days means it will get on the water. I have the rig, rudder and board already from other boats (spars from an unknown dinghy, we have cut down a 17year old mainsail, daggerboard is a damaged beach cat board, rudder, source unknown, total cost was under USD100, thank you Craigs List).

    However, I will be using best quality plywood as I want my boat to last 15+ years (as my previous plywood dinghies have). Even so total wood cost is under USD300, while we expect to use about USD50 in epoxy

    I just hope it doesn't rain... The build is under a tent with no sides

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  11. Segler
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    Segler Junior Member

    macbeath,

    If you are at all inclined to build, I would encourage you to do so. You don't have to do it in a week, you couldn't anyway. Or take time off from work. Everybody has some recreational time. Weekends? I found, that for this kind of thing, stepping away from it frequently is beneficial. It allows you to evaluate what you have done and gives you time to contemplate the next step.

    Three of us are building right now and we are well into it. You could be the fourth. I think we will have three boats in the water this year. Four if you participate. We all live in the greater Seattle area. I am looking for September or even October, if the weather holds. Four boats would not be a bad kick-off for a new fleet/class.
     
  12. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    I will fashion a crown appropriate to my post as Imperial Admiral of the Fleet. Perhaps it would be best if I brought a ring suitable for kissing?

    Don't forget the doughnuts.
     
  13. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    and the rum! or is this more like a beer and pretzel class?
     
  14. macbeath
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    macbeath Junior Member

    I'm thinking if I do build, I probably won't be ready by late September, because it looks like I'll have to move.

    I'm also thinking I should build something that won't sail on a knife edge, like my previous plan. Maybe something more like this:

    [​IMG]

    Peter, you'll recall that's pretty much the design I showed you when we first met with Dick Wagner, as an example of where I thought the class would go with the rule if you didn't allow hiking benches. I said if you did, a narrow, wall-sided boat with the benches would probably dominate.

    I might go with a narrower bottom and higher freeboard.

    Still not sure, though. It's the rowing requirement that seems to dictate the narrow waterline, and I'm not sure I care all that much about rowing my all-purpose boat. I might build something more stable that won't be as competitive, just as a boat I'd like to own.
     

  15. Stephen Ditmore
    Joined: Jun 2001
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    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    Updated rules

    I've given up trying to read through all 60 pages of posts to see if there have been changes to the rules stated in Post #1. Have there been? Where can I find the rules as they stand today?
     
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