New low-cost "hardware store" racing class; input on proposed rules

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Petros, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    Except the one Alan pointed out: as proof the build has begun.
     
  2. Sailor Alan
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 299
    Likes: 15, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 85
    Location: Gig Harbor WA

    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    I think both you and Jammer 6 are correct in that photographic evidence should be forthcomming before we 'freeze' the rules for a build, BUT, if somebody does not wish to submit a photograph, we cannot be expected to 'freeze' the rules for them.
    To be honest, a photo such as i have submitted from my colleagues can hardly reveal much in the way of secrets. Even knowing the exact length and beam of my colleagues boat, i cannot estimate its other dimensions with much fidelity, and apart from its general arrangement, flat or "V" bottom, flair or wings, i cannot guess rig details, or most of the other details that make a difference with Dinghies.

    I accept that we can take advice on rule changes, and proposals from any interested parties, but feel fairley strongly that owners should be the only ones to vote, at least for a few years.
    Note; a development, or "Box" type rule is not the same as a 'one design' class, at least for rules administration.
    Apart from making press statements, what does a commodore actually do?
    Note; our club commodore participates in every race we compete in.

    What, if anything, is happening in other parts of the world, ie outside the PNW.
     
  3. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,936
    Likes: 148, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1593
    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    A long time friend of mine I used to sail beach cats with in college bought larger and larger boats over the years and was active in the Redondo Beach Yacht club in so. California for a number of years. the years he severed as Commodor he was always one of the race officials, orgnaized the race and basicly spent the whole day in the Officials Boat watching the fleet for rules violators. I do not see how he could compete.

    However, for a small group friends of low cost sail boats we might not have race official at all. The events should be fun get together ending in a BBQ and "awards" given out by votes of the contestants. I think protests can also be handled with a discussion of the violation, and vote of the participants. I would tend to favor allowing all boats that show up to run, but give specific instructions to correct the violation before the next race, or the out of compliance boat will be not be allowed to enter the next race.

    BTW, I am happy to see at least local interest in this class, it would be fun to get other chapters going in other parts of the country. Before the Pt. Townend event we should share contact information for everyone to start a roster of contestants and boats through the Private Message feature. We will have to get pictures to post here of our first get together.
     
  4. Sailor Alan
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 299
    Likes: 15, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 85
    Location: Gig Harbor WA

    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Clearly we are talking about different levels of Comodore! We agree with the competing Comodore principle mentioned above, and all your suggestions regards racing fouls, though we would prefer self policing, ie if you foul, take your turns like a man. I think seriously out of compliance boats could compete, but probably not earn 'points' until the compliance is fixed. As regards racing rules, we are there to see how fast our boats sail, not to see who has the best tactics etc.
    Yes, it would be nice to meet before the PT event, and we can exchange particulars as you suggest. Perhaps a meeting at some mutually convinient place and time might be arranged.
     
  5. Sailor Alan
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 299
    Likes: 15, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 85
    Location: Gig Harbor WA

    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    We do too!. Personally, having spent my career designing things with completely unlimited research budgets, inventing, or developing, processes and materials that didn't exist before, I have always enjoyed creating things with strictly limited resources instead. This class is a golden opportunity to exercise that by innovating within this strict budget, balancing material cost vs material performance vs material effectiveness within an overall requirement for boat performance.
    Having heard Richards description of his plywood hull, I think we will see a lot of differences in approaches in this class. I hope it stays this way, and doesn't settle into a one design look alike. I will be especially interested as we expand our racing into the longer (raid?) type races where endurance and load carrieing ability start to become important.
     
  6. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,936
    Likes: 148, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1593
    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    it becomes as much a creative design and engineering problem to make it low cost, and still perform well (and build able in a typical home shop), as it does to stay within a box rule with no budget constraints. Perhaps even more so.

    I think too often designers get caught up in high tech (costly) materials and construction methods rather than use the same creative process to make it cost less to build. Simple can not only cost less, but can also perform well as well, if that is your design objective. Everything is built to a budget, in this case the budget is just set low enough to become part of the challenge, and to allow more people to be able to afford entering the contest.
     
  7. Sailor Alan
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 299
    Likes: 15, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 85
    Location: Gig Harbor WA

    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Boat floors

    All,
    The forum at large has been silent for a while, but here is a question for all of you. My dinghy has a false floor, or cockpit bottom, separate from the hull bottom proper. Should this be strips of holly and teak alternating? And if so what proportions? I notice from other sources that 2.5" teak separated by 0.5" maple seems to be a modern standard. Will I loose points by using the incorrect woods, and/or in the wrong proportions.

    Advice and suggestions please.
     
  8. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,936
    Likes: 148, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1593
    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    under current rules, use which ever combination gives you a performance advantage. There are no points for appearance (i have been in too many building contest were appearance was the main judging criteria, often rather arbitrary).

    With this set of rules, only performance is measured! So it is unambiguous who won, and why.

    of course there is nothing wrong with an attractive boat, and it will help you sell plans or build a fan club, if that is your ultimate goal.

    Teak and maple seem kind of heavy to me, might actually slow you down.
     
  9. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    Another advantage of the commando race is that it's not ambiguous.

    And instead of a protest, the commando just attacks the race committee. At night, in their beds, when they're sleeping, after slitting their dog's throats.
     
  10. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,936
    Likes: 148, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1593
    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    it would be more sporting to attack your competition, that way there will be someone to recognize your "win".

    That could actually be a fun contest, something like "robot wars", where you build boats out of a supply of cheap plywood, with the intention of sinking your competition in a marina or sheltered water. Last boat floating wins!
     
  11. Sailor Alan
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 299
    Likes: 15, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 85
    Location: Gig Harbor WA

    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    This was by way of a rather heavy handed joke, and was designed to find out if any other people (except you and Jammer) were following this thread anymore.
     
  12. TwoManyHulls
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 10
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: United States

    TwoManyHulls FlyingHulls

    Midwest: Any Takers?

    I am still following the thread, and am wondering if there are any others in the Midwest interested in building to this class. I am working on a design, and will make it available to the Interested, but it would be nice to be close enough to the build to at least see it.
     
  13. TwoManyHulls
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 10
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: United States

    TwoManyHulls FlyingHulls

    I have been reviewing the rules, and want a clarification on the definition of "spinnaker":
    As I understand it, a spinnaker is a sail whose tack is attached to a movable spar, and not to the boat through a fitting. Is this the way the rules define it? In other words, if you have a genneker set flying, but with its tack on a bowsprit, it would be within the rules?
     
  14. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    Speaking as Imperial Admiral of the Fleet On High, Protector of The Rules, Captain At Large,

    ...

    uhm, what was the question?
     

  15. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,936
    Likes: 148, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1593
    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    the definition of a spinnaker is covered in the International sailing rules referenced in the rule set, there is a link to it so you can find it. I think it has more to do with camber or size relative to the mainsail, I do not remember, but I do remember reading in those existing rules how it is defined.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.