New low-cost "hardware store" racing class; input on proposed rules

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Petros, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    ah "commodores"? darn spell checker, I did not notice. Commandos are welcome to join the fun, but I do not think a race coarse should be designed by them for this race anyway.
     
  2. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    A real commando race would take place at oh-dark-thirty, in a howling gale.

    They would jump from forty thousand feet, ten nautical miles away, with their boats dropped twenty miles away, steer themselves to a point a hundred yards from their boat, with no parachute, drop into the water, locate their boat, assemble it, rig it, and sail through the course in total silence, remaining completely invisible, using only a thumb compass and two matches for navigation.

    There would be no race committee or handicapping necessary, because during the race they would hunt down and kill each other, weight the bodies and the boats to sink, until only the winner remained.

    We probably better have some waivers signed.
     
  3. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    A "commando raid" contest? who is in? survival of the fittest, might make a good reality TV show.
     
  4. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    We'd have problems finding a pilot to fly in a gale.
     
  5. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    image1.jpg
    No problem finding a pilot. No problem with the airplane either, might be some permit issues over the drop though.

    Here is a picture of the third boat start, mine.

    Notice the row of windows along the sides. In the grand tradition of the Maori keeping their prisoners unde the floor of their canoes, this is to allow them some light and air. Notice the holes in the transverse frames as well. Actually they are lightening holes, and any similarity to Jack Northrups DC-3 wing dsign is totally appropriate.
     

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  6. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    If it's the permits for the drop that concern you, your organizational skills make mine look small.

    I'm not worthy.

    Personally, I'd almost certainly need a third match.
     
  7. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member


    Permits? We don't need no stinking permits!

    besides, who would be crazy enough to be out in that weather anyway, the contestants will all be long gone by the time anyone catches on.

    It is a commando raid, if you get caught, you are disqualified anyway, right?

    It is a reality show after all.
     
  8. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Perhaps I'm too serious, but flying in weather implies IFR clearance, and that requires filing a flight plan. Having filed a flight plan, questions may be asked, especially if you land with fewer people on board than when you took off.

    Regardless, i am progressing with my boat. The width of the 2 X 6" supports show the eventual beam and flair of the finished hull.
     

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  9. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    sailor alan,

    I that is an interesting frame, I am having a hard time understanding what it will be. Are we looking at the bottom side up? will it have a flat bottom? Is there going to be an outer hull too? Or how will the lightening holes be covered to keep water out? Do you have a line drawing of a three view of your design? I am just trying to understand what it will look like when it is done.
     
  10. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    You are looking at the internal structure of the boat UPSIDE DOWN. The vertical longditudinals are the inside sides of the cockpit, complete with lightening/access/storage holes. The cockpit floor will sit on the straight, horozontal battens on the inside of these longditudinals. Yes, the bottom is 'flat' laterally, but curved longitudinally. Yet to be added are the twin parallel longditudinals supporting the bottom and floor, from transom to mast step (forward) bulkhead. The sides twist and curve from the chine at the top of the longditudinals, to the gunwale, yet to be added. The gunwale will more or less follow the ends of the 2 X 6" building frame giving some idea of the deck width and flair of the finished boat.
     

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  11. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Rules Committee

    As i understand it, you, Petros, started this thread with the laudable concept of creating a cheap class of sailboat for experimentation into methods and techniques to dramatically lower to cost of sailing, whilst simultaneously encouraging wide open competition into innovative shapes, rigs, and especially materials, all within a 'box' rule and especially a series of diverse 'races' to test the limits of these boats as general transport as well as race boats. i.e. single seat, twin seat, loaded, unloaded, and long 'raid' type events. A boat having to excell is several of these to 'win'.

    As i also understand it, whilst happy to be regarded as the 'father' of this class, you would rather not be its first commodore, or class secretary/historian etc.

    Has the time come to consider these things.

    As the textural representative of 7 or more interested parties, 3 of whom are building boats, i would like to suggest the following for consideration.

    The rules committee is anyone who owns/operates a boat, one vote per completed boat. Just like the 5.5m class, we will accept proxi votes from Kings and Princes who cannot attend annual meetings. Actually meetings will be via this internet forum, and proof of ownership, and launching will be via photographic evidence. Do we need a 'register' of boats, and issue hull numbers? Further, we suggest 'freezing' the rules whilst any one boat is in build, i.e. upon receiving photographic evidence of a boat being stated, not just drawn, but started in build. There should perhaps be a time limit for this, preventing people from starting a boat, then letting it lie fallow for years whilst the rules are still 'frozen'.

    We agree the cost issue can be mainly an honour suystem, but as the plans of each boat must be published, including the bill of materials, actual retail cost will become obvious if anyone attempts to reproduce any one such design/boat.

    As the results of races will also be published on the forum, relitive performance between boats can be judged, at least in the gross.

    There remains the post of commodore, or "Grand Mufti". If there are no volunteers, we could draft Jammer 6.
     
  12. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    Uh, oh.

    I'm going to have to go over my plans for a commando race.
     
  13. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    Great idea sailor Alen,

    I created this thread because I want to build boats in a class like this. the rules did not always go as I always planned, but everyone's input were valuable in forming the final rules and I accepted that input. I do not see being the commodore and actually participating in the events as compatible, however we can each take turns informally to act as commodore until we get beyond a few friends competing in the local pond.

    I would propose that anyone can propose modifications or changes to the current rules as any time, and those that have competed at least once, or have boats that will be ready to sail that year, can vote on the change (after it being discussed here) to adapt it for the next year's rules effective January 31.

    I think the photo evidence might expose someone's new design before they have a change to compete with it. The idea is you have one season with a new design before you have to make plans available if you win the series that year.

    Instead I propose we should leave photo evidence out and again depend on that persons honor. If the vote was close, than we can always go back and disqualify the vote before the Jan 31 dead line if that person never splashes the boat in any event that year. Again the idea is anyone can propose a rule change, but only those that have actually competed can vote on it for a change for next year.

    When the event grows beyond Puget sound, or some total number of participants (make that 60?), than we will have to create a rules committee of at least three knowledgeable people either with rules experiance in other sailing events, or that has competed in previous events. We can still vote, but the rules committee has the responsibility of organizing and enforcing the rules, and perhaps assembling the ballot with reasons for the proposed changes. I would have to think about at what point the rules committee members are barred from competing or participating in the design and building of any of the boats, we can relax this in the beginning, but it should not be allowed at some point.
     
  14. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    You're racing $650 boats in a race no one knows exists. Alan's putting some of his drawings up. That's a more realistic view of the value of a new design.
     

  15. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    perhaps, but there is no reason to post pictures if a contestant does not want to.
     
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