New low-cost "hardware store" racing class; input on proposed rules

I had posted that change in the fall of 2014, it is in this thread, well before Jan 2015. We can keep it at 5 ft for this year, with the wings out to 7 ft perhaps? (or not? what do you all think?). I thought it would make a more useful boat and would not affect portability much. Richard's hull is way under the 5 ft beam already, not much cargo space.

This last change came about after richard woods and I spent a weekend together at the Pt. Townsend wood boat festival in September, and many email exchanges afterwards. We discussed using those rules to enter the Endensaw contest to have a "private" contest between us for next year, since they had no race part of their contest. I posted it to this forum than as I recall.

The Eden saw contest requires you to build the hull at the boat show, 2 days, and sunday morning (judging at 1 pm sunday). We just thought it would be fun to "test" these rules in this years contest. No formal race planned for that weekend, again just a fun race between us (and anyone else that shows up with a boat the fits the rules is free to race with us). Cost of materials will just be on the honor system with no committee to verify.

The Center for wooden boats offered us a "class" in their late September Norm Blanchard wood boat regatta if at least three boats meeting our rules show up. it is about 2 weeks after the Pt. Townsend boat show as I recall. so yes, that will be the first "race" of this class if at least three show up. You guys would have the advantage of having tested and shaken down your boats before we do since ours would have been built just a few weeks before this event. The only stipulation of the Norm Blanchard wooden boat regatta at the Center for wooden boats is that the hull has to be made primarily of wood. since wood is the cheapest building material I did not think that would be an issue for anyone.

So we have a first event planned within the Center for wooden boats event, in Seattle.

From there we can perhaps plan several more events for the next season. The more publicity the more will show up. we should perhaps set up a forum with rules and discussions about this "class" some time soon so there is a "go to" place for current information. I do not have time to do that now, but it would be nice. Any volunteers?

 

The Zest wings are separate to the boat and are foam filled, attached by beams to the main hull. So I can argue that my Zest is a trimaran as it has three different buoyant areas

RW

 

Then it can't compete in this class.

Maybe you should design a boat that can. Or revise The Zest design to fit the rules.

I know that's kind of like cutting off part of the step daughter's foot to make it fit the magic slipper, but that's the price of admittance.

A 5ft over all Beam limit.

 

You guys who are still talking should listen to the guys who are building.

 

Not a very good argument Richard. Zest is really a monohull with hiking wings.
Just because you have foam in your wings does not make them Arma's. Besides having to heel the boat 40+' befor the Arma is in the water does not sound like a tri to me.

Just because we open our landing gear doors outward, does not make them wings either.

Petros, we are building to the 5' beam rule, as being more practical for a general purpose vessel. Carrieing 100lb or so of 'payload' is going to sort us out anyway.

Jammer 6, how about some race committee, or race support personal. I know you could do it.

 

What do you need?

 

actually it would only be a trimaran if it was sailed with the wings in the water. Which I suspect would cause a lot of drag, so there would be no competitive advantage. Extra floatation would be a good thing, as long as it is not in the water during a race.

the hollow rule on the hull is for below water line shapes only, because than a fat gunwale would violate that rule.

 

Sewing

I just recieved two (2) only #15 sailmakers needles in the post from a mail order house. I know we must do all we can to protect the postal service, but two needles in this size packaging is ridiculous. These are necessary for the fabrication of my sail.

 

Okay, I want to make this clear: since we have projects underway with the current rules, 5 ft will be the max beam width for this year.

If the current people building agree to allowing wings or seat appendage out to seven ft, exclusive of the hull, we can all agree to adopt that change as a group.

We have no rules committe, so the current builders have a strong say in it. If after we get together and play with our boats built under the current class rules, I propose we should all discuss changing the beam width for next season.

I was pressured by a number of experiance builders to allow 5.5', and after thinking about it, and looking at a number of popular good performing hulls, though perhaps a larger beam would be benefitial to making a more useful boat, and not affect cost nor portable much.

For now however it will stay at 5 ft.

Sailor Alan has pointed out we have boats being built to the 5 ft rule, so unless we get a consensus for wings or extend seats, it will stay 5 ft. overall.

 

Thank you Petros, both for this decision, and for your long term persistence with creating this class, not to mention advocacy of a low cost sailing boat.

As i mentioned, i am in touch with Home Depot about this class, and i will tell you if anything comes of it.

I'm sorry about the pressure brought to bare for the 5.5' beam but as you say, we have 3 boats in build at 5' beam (see pic). We can discuss beam increases in future, but none of the boats in build are particually amenable to an increased beam, especially 12" either side. To be fair, a maximium beam of 5.5' is hardly here nor there, being not much more than a wide trim strip on the gunwhale, but we should leave it at 5' for now. As i understand it, Richards boat has detachable 'wings' and these could be made to yeald different "beams' for different situations.

Our 3 boats are all designed and built within the letter and spirit of the rules, and the material lists will be available for comment after the 'season'. That will show (roughly) how much they cost on the public market. One of our boats will be built using almost entirely scrap or reclaimed timber products, so will be quite difficult to 'cost', and indeed some of the material (old growth cedar?) virtually impossible to obtain today. I agree, we should give this boat a break, but cost it anyway.

None of our boats use exotic materials, or methods, or tools for that matter, in spite of our knowlage and experience. The inovation might be the unusual use of materials in some instances.

I notice Jammer 6 has offered assistance, do we need any to conduct a 'race' in Port Townsend or on Lake Union? In the first case we are rather prevailing on the PT wooden boat festival, but on Lake Union we have at least a regular course. Do we need a start boat, mark boat, video boat, or one of those boats that follow the Americas Cup boats and rules on rule infractions on the spot?

Im not sure about PT, but Lake Union in September is likely to be a drifting match, and hardly a real test of these boats.

 

I thought at the Pt. Townsend boat show we can just do some "gentleman's racing" informally. work out a simple coarse based on a number of landmarks, and go for it. Since the boats built at the show would not have had a lot of time to work out problems, it would but those boats at a severe disadvantage. We are not allowed to float the boats before the 1 pm sunday judging.

At the Norm Blanchard race the course is designed and judged by experienced commandos and people that know how to design and run a race. So we do not have to worry about that one, it will be done for us.

 

As Alan says, since my wings are lashed to the hull it will be easy to make narrow ones to meet the 5ft beam class. As I will be using a small sail on my boat that should be no problem in the light PNW conditions.

With the total payload as per the rules my boat floats 50mm deeper

BTW, shippers use big boxes for everything so the small items don't get lost in the truck. And as every one recycles no big deal

RW

 

Thanks Petros, excellent suggestions, and i/we agree to this race schedule. Here is a photo of our second boat started. Is there somewhere our boats could be displayed at PT during the event? i know nothing about it.

At PT we hope to also have a Mirror as a benchmark, and others of a similar size could also join in if they wish. I will be bringing my requisite doughnut(s) for jammer 6. In setting the course, we might bare in mind that "Gentlemen" do not sail to windward? Though our boats will have been in the water longer than yours and Richards (mine not so much), our testing will have mainly been making things not break.

The Norm Blanchard Regatta will give us a better chance to judge relitive performance, but one race, and round the cans at that, can hardly be a true test of the boats given the wide range of conditions under which they are supposed to be effective. Im not sure how the 'commandos' fit in, are we supposed to wear knives on our sleeves, and storm the finish line, during the Norm Blanchard series? a typo perhaps?

I agree that the PT build and judging rules do not give you much time to get your boats ready to race, and the space between PT and Lake Union is also hardly long enough either. We therefore propose we freeze the 'rules' for at least the 2015 season as well, and try to get some longer, raid type, races on the calender. This might give enough time for a few other boats to enter the fray. Certainly the different designs represented at these competitions will give food for thought.

 

No, no, no, no.

It was a bet.

I'll owe you doughnuts. And I'll be pleased to pay off!

I think real commandoes also carry high speed low drag all weather night capable tactical infrared visible camoflauge handkerchiefs.

 

Bravo, Petros!