New low-cost "hardware store" racing class; input on proposed rules

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Petros, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Contenders also use fixed rudders.

    I also like the wishbone tiller and cassette rudder. But I once broke a wishbone tiller as I had screwed it to the stock at the point of maximum load, so I had removed wood because of the screw hole

    Thats one thing I don't like about the GIS, as in the photo here

    http://www.storerboatplans.com/wp/n...unching-2-woodeneye-in-the-hunter-valley-nsw/

    But you do need a shockcord kickup system for sailing in shallow water, not just launching and beaching. Success with cassette rudders very much depends where you sail. PNW no problem, Christchurch Harbour (UK) not so good

    The problem with the wood mast is not making the mast but the sail track

    RW
     
  2. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    I was also under the impression these boats were intended for human power as well. I am assuming, and providing for, rowing off a lee shore, if a lee shore is provided. In fact, unless the rules specifically forbid it, in light wind I will row to windward, directly, no tacking. I even designed a de-mountable rig to allow serious rowing to windward, but have been talked out of it by my crew.

    The Mirror Dingey being an excelent example of a boat that can be rowed to windward faster than sailed in some conditions.

    I built at least 4 such wooden rudder stocks, double cheeks, and a bungee cord to hold the blade in. The stock, fixed tiller, weighed about 2lb, Kauri, or more likely Kahikitea. The blade slid vertically one handed, and back if it hit somthing. Very successful, hence repeated for 4 boats.

    I'll include a drawing soon.
     
  3. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Yes a good idea, and well explained as well.

    I am interested in how the various disciplines approch this boat. I am a Physicist, working with other Physisists, Aero engineers and Aerodynamicists, and we favor an even simpler mast, roughly rectangular in section, and including a sail track. It can be made using only a table saw, or even just a skill saw, and cable ties as clamps. The attraction for us is its ability to use wood fiber direction to Taylor bend and twist to where we want it.

    Assuming this actually works, we will happily publish plans and methods post race.
     
  4. zaca60
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    zaca60 Junior Member

    Post race is fine ;); I think after page 50 the thread starter might want to summarize the rule, so we can finalize a release 1.0?
     
  5. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Is that Graham Taylor? Is the twist relevant to a vertical wing with wind sheer a major factor at low altitudes? Or something else?

    Have you checked Mikko's work?

    http://www.wb-sails.fi/Portals/209338/news/SailPowerCalc/SailPowerCalc.htm

    and, eg on this thread

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/hydrodynamics-aerodynamics/physical-art-sailing-51948-3.html

    and video here. Are you going to do that, see 2 mins in

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yznyjCsBMRc&list=PLH4-HvJzwXfla4zXcR7gerULZAFuKGr0q#t=154

    RW
     
  6. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    More like Jack Taylor, the Irish dective.

    No you will not see us 'pumping' the sails, under such conditions, I would be rowing.

    Probably unnessary, but here is a review of what we understand the rules to lead to. We regard the rules as stated in post #497 as version 1.0, and as such are designing and about to build to these.

    To review.

    I believe the PO wanted a versatile family friendly multi purpose boat that could carry several people (total load specified as 500lb by inference) off a beach or other launching place. The boat was to be raced, so performance was important. Oars or paddles were to be provided for no wind, and perhaps other situations, like marina maneuvering, and possibly beach launching.

    The racing, including races with a single crew, ~ 200lb total payload, and races with two crew and another 100lb 'cooler' ie total payload ~ 500lb, and of long (raid type) and short (olympic?) courses. This competition will generally show which design is most adaptable to a wide range of conditions as points are accumulative. All equipment needed for transport across the beach, wheels etc, to be included (carried) whilst racing.

    A Box measurement rule was provided, 14' LOD, and 16' LOA , 5' wide, and 20' high rig. The 16' length 'rigged' effectively banned 'Flying' sails, as they, by their nature, belly forward of the tip of the bowsprit, though this might depend on the measurement person. We have chosen to assume 'no rigging, or sail, when set exceeds the 16', so leading to the use of roller furling headsails for downwind work.

    The final and best criteria of all, that the whole boat will be ready to sail, and possibly for sale, for $600.
     
  7. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    using that definition would also imply that you couldn't let the boom out when offwind as the beam would then be more than 5ft

    RW
     
  8. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    Actually, the original post (post one, for the rest of you) didn't say anything about rowing, that came up when the rest of the committee appointed their bad selves.

    Post one talked about "sailboats".

    You guys know what they are, right?

    It's too bad that that got changed. I just got home from a Real Sailing Race.

    I'm starting to see why it takes you guys so long.
     
  9. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    You are correct of course, rule C2 specifically states sails and booms can go outside the 'box' when sailing.

    Just wondering how/if this could be exploited for a longer pole going forward. Not sure I want it, we already have enough sail area, especially as this is meant to be a family friendly boat.
     
  10. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    I'm quoting rule 'I', though perhaps a little too vigorously.
     
  11. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    So what were you racing? and wasn't it a bit wet?? How do you define a "real" race, is it the class of boat? or the sailors? Do 600 Optimists have a real race? or two America's Cup boats, one of whom doesn't start?

    BTW when you were doing that I was also out on the water, doing this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0zvvgugxxA&list=UUhKTQtbKN5BaXFTg2BjcbqA

    RW
     
  12. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    No oars, motoring or other foolishness. You bring a sailboat, and you sail.

    Today I raced in a DuFour.

    Yes, it was wet, we got gusts of 34 off West Point.

    A real sailboat would be cheaper to build than a rowboat with a mast. An El Toro is cheaper than a Whitehall. And you wouldn't need to whittle oars.
     
  13. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Stop complaining. Even the DuFour has an auxiliary engine, and the oars in this case are just that. Equally, alternate means of propulsion must be aboard, and 'Demonstrated on demand' to a Coast Guard official, in every boat in Washington State.

    Rule 'I' states ' at the judges discretion', volunteer as a judge.

    But we thank you for maintaining the sport during the winter months, through weather good and bad.

    BTW, It's relatively easy to design a 'pure' sailing boat, designing it to be efficient under diverse propulsion systems is much harder.

    Better yet, you are in Seattle, design and build your own boat for this challenge. Convince your buddies at the CYC they should participate too.
     
  14. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    You asked about "real" sailboat races.

    We real sailors don't have any provisions in our races for "judge's discretion"-- there are no conditions under which we start the motor and stay in the race.

    We sail, we DSQ ourselves, or we cancel.

    And I didn't say it would be easier, I said it would be cheaper. Cheaper is one of the stated concerns in this class.

    I'm not complaining, I have lots of boats to race. I'm heckling and mocking.

    48 pages, 700 posts, two years of talking, no boats, no races, no class, no club.

    Only one main proponent of the class will even bet the price of a doughnut on a race happening before the end of the year. The rest of this clan (wisely) won't even risk that.

    I like maple bars.
     

  15. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Also just heckling.. A lot of people would say a Dufour isn't a real race boat

    And you should race in the Van Isle 360 where you do have to motor during the race - through Seymour Narrows. Or the 3 Peaks race in the UK, or Round Britain etc when you can use human power. I rowed my 35ft catamaran across the finishing line in the Falmouth to Azores race

    RW
     
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