New Jib Design Idea

Why not a masthead luff on that NS14 jib? I thought luff length was crucial to performance.

 

Isn't it fairly well accepted that, as noted here by Tom Speer and others, that the main and jib are effectively the same entity when considering effective rig height and aspect ratio? The NS14 rig measures all the area and therefore if the jib went to the masthead, either the sails would have to be even higher in aspect (which IIRC leads to lower total lift at broad angles and therefore slower downwind speed) or the rig would have to be lower in total height/span.

Another major factor is that initial testing proved that, as in other classes, that forestay height provides the best automatic mast bend to optimise gust response. It's stayed roughly the same ever since because it's still highly efficient.

The effectiveness of that little jib is surprising. Cat rigs have been tried without success using the normal two crew and full sail area. There is (or has been) also a small group of people sailing NS14s singlehanded without the jib. Although they lose the weight of the crew, which is about 75% of the hull weight, they are surprisingly slow, losing about 6% of speed and reducing that lovely hull and wingmast squaretop rig to a boat as fast as a Laser.

 

You are making stuff up again.

That style of rig works beautifully on a 2-5 ton boat, and even on much bigger boats. It does NOT have to cost more than other types of rig of similar performance - in fact it's regularly cheaper.



What heads have been broken on a boat with a bigger version of an "NS14 style" rig? Are you making stuff up again?

PS - I own a couple of rigs of this type. The second boat from the camera in your shot is a friendly rival of mine, from the club next to me.

 

Ok, so its partly due to a "one-design" issue. The rest makes sense, its just a "fat-top" version of my old Nordic Folkboat rig, the non mast top forestay allowing some wicked mast bend to be induced. It does require a longer mast though.

I had not read anything from Tom Speer with regards to main/jib as being effective as one unit.

 

Back in the 1960/70's the Shearwater catamaran class allowed different proportions for mainsail and jib,provided the total area was within class limits.An established sailor in the class told me that after a bit of experimentation,the class settled on the Coster rig with a small jib and the rest of the area in the mainsail.It was so described because the man who moved development that way was Neil Coster.

 

h (wind - water): 455 cm
h (twist): 383 cm

Power % Displacement x Displacement in Newtons = Force (Sail Carrying Power) in Newtons: 1892 Newtons

The Twist function of the ORC_VPP model was developed by Fabio Fossati in the wind tunnel of the Polytechnic of Milan

It is great to manage the force of the rig by means of the twist of the mainsail because at the same time we have a very flexible rig and a firm mast that we do not play with bending

And it is great because at the same time it trim the Lift coefficient and the height (h) at which the force is found

Remember that Power expressed as a percentage of displacement is GZ / h

 

The fundamental variable of the Twist function is the Fractionality

in this case 0.75 which is a typical 3/4 Fractional rig with a mainsail twice the size of the staysail/jib

 

Yes, in some ways it's similar to the Folkboat rig but no, the NS14 isn't a one design and never has been. It's a development class.

There's heaps of stuff from Tom (and Mark Drela) on that topic that I checked through today and may find again later.

 

The Fractional rig of the 1950s was defeated on the racing field because the mainsail up top was ridiculously shaped and even more ridiculously sized

1 full batten, One full batten, up top is enough to save the Fractional rig

 

All of this is all very well known, accepted and used by the very same designers you repeatedly insult and abuse.

The high performance monos who twist mainsails almost always also "play" with the mast by bending it.

 

And

And the next improvement to the Fractional rig is to make the mainsail leech drop vertical, which is what we see on the NS 14

 

Wrong again. In the 1950s and even well into the 1980s, the stretch qualities of sailcloth and the SA/D limits meant that it was impossible to create a wide-head yacht mainsail that would not tend to fall away excessively in high winds, close too much in light winds, and/or require so many battens that it would create excess rig weight and make it extremely difficult to tune the mainsail draft percentage and position for varying conditions.

Apparently you were not there so didn't notice these problems, but they were very real. The reason that even leading edge designers like Spencer went to small mainsails and big genoas was because the technology of the time meant that they were the best option for most offshore yachts. You could have big light-wind headsails of light cloth and change to smaller ones of heavier cloth without excessive weight or stretch. Boats with big mainsails suffered because a mainsail cloth that was heavy enough to maintain a flat shape in strong winds was too heavy to set well in light winds.

Having one full batten is not necessary for an efficient fractional rig, nor is it optimum. That is why sailmakers, who are far smarter than you are (which is very easy) usually have either no full battens or more than one.

You appear to be as ignorant of rig technology as you are of everything else.

 

The biggest problem i see is communication with the sailmaker

(It has been known for a long time that human communication is almost impossible since communication is born to transmit emotions and is an elaborate variation of the shout)

They are very used to full battens on flexible masts with back stay, and less used to the idea of a very firm mast without back stay

 

Wrong yet again. You seem to be unable to write a sentence without showing your utter ignorance.

 

The only reason you may find communication impossible is because you are so ignorant.

Many, many sailmakers have been using full battened mains on very firm masts without backstays for decades. Here's just one example, Lock Crowther's wingmasted cat Wahoo. It had a very firm mast, full battens, no backstay and the sailmaker (I think it may have been Geoff Adams) had been working with such rigs for years.



There have been many such craft for many years. Sailmakers have no problem with them. The fact that you have somehow remained ignorant of such craft merely shows your manifold limitations. You are arrogant, ignorant and repeatedly insult people who are incomparably smarter and more knowledgeable than you are. Stop insulting sailmakers and designers who, unlike you, sail and succeed.