New High Performance Monofoilers

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Dec 19, 2008.

  1. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    The surfboard looks like a pretty good test platform for investigating foiling properties.
     
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Well, I think Rush Randle is pretty close to right with his use of a modified air chair foil in terms of jumping(re-entry) and manouverability. I'd like to see what would happen with a modified set of Moth foils in terms of increasing speed-which is slower with Randles foil than a foil-less board. I built a set for a local champion windsurfer but he ran out of patience before he could reliably fly....
    I've said for years that eventually development would lead to foilers like the Moth with the capability to jump at will and re-enter safely. Rush Randle is doing that now albeit with a compromise foil section/planform that allows save re-entry. Someday....

    click on image:
     

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  3. Cheesy
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    Cheesy Senior Member

    If its a kite specific surfboard it will be fine, normal surfboards just dont last, there is much higher load from your heels which crushes the board.
     
  4. Cheesy
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    Cheesy Senior Member

    You may be able to make a foil that will cope with it but you just cant control the attitude of boat in the air like you can with a board
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    jumping

    ========
    I'm thinking that ,if designed properly, the aerodynamic characteristics of the boat will aid the boat in a safe landing as well as the foils.
     
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    New High Performance Monofoilers-Phil says forget it!

    This is the kind of thing that is really sad and unfortunate. Rather than encourage new development he ridicules it. This is from the same guy who said no boat bigger than a Moth could foil a few years ago: (fromSA)


    Group: Members Posts: 922 Joined: 06-December 05 Location:Sydney Posted Today, 02:26 AM

    This is a good discussion but its getting off topic.


    For those who think they can make a better boat outside the class rules or those who think they can make a new class based on the Moth Knowledge, good luck. Its been done before many times in the history of the moth and to be honest the laser is the only one on 80 years which has been as huge success. The Europe has a long reign but the sparkle has dwindled with loss of olympic status. The UK and NZ one design off shoots are dead, and numerous builders have scrapped their expensive molds for alternaticve new one designs of around moth size. It seems that no matter what people dream up as an alternative they all end up on the scrap heap of obsolecence as the Moth class moves forward into the future of sailing, as it has done for 80 years. So dont create a new obsolete one design, there are enough of them around already.
    I prefer to stay with the leaders in inovation. MOTH.
    Phil S
    Moth AUS 3574, My moth Blog
    IC/DC AUS 21, My Sailing Canoe Blog
    2011 Moth Worlds Belmont NSW

    =========================================
    Well, the boats on this thread prove the first comment wrong and there is a lot of development that will prove this last comment completly out of touch with reality. For one thing the Moth(and most of the boats in this thread) is a high performance racing machine. No effort until recently has gone to the development of foilers that are comfortable and easy to sail. That's something that a lot of people find hard to believe is even possible due to the years of horror stories about crashes, about having to walk out 500' to climb into your foiler because the foils don't retract -and if they did the hull is so narrow it would roll over and so on and on.
    Andrew McDougall is , at present working on a foiler that will put all this preconceived nonsense in the past. I say nonsense not because these little foilers didn't crash but because their crashing is not intrinsic to the design of a foiler! Not having retractable foils is NOT intrinsic to the design of a foiler! Lack of comfort does not have to be a hallmark of foiler design. There is a whole area of untapped development here that could revolutionize foiler design and market acceptance of small foilers.
     
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    New High Performance Monofoilers-Blaze/RS600FF conversion

    Matt Burnett of the Great Sailing Island(UK) has converted a "Blaze" to a foiler
    using RS 600FF foils. I'll follow this all the way. He was supposed to sail Sunday but these are the only pictures/info currently available:
    --
    Blaze Specification

    Blaze version 3 (March 2008 +)Designers lan Howlett and John Caig in 1996
    Boat Builders - Cirrus Raceboats Limited
    Length 4.20 / 13.8'
    Beam - Max 2.48m / 8.13'
    Hull 72kg / 158lb (probably 175(more or less) ready to sail
    Sail 10.0m2 Semi Rigid / 107.6 sq.ft
    Mast - 6.5m Superspars M7
    Outer Racks and Boom - Carbon composite
    Hull Construction - Epoxy Sandwich by Rondar
    Foils - Epoxy Sandwich by Rondar
    PN 1047
    ------------
    Note: RS600FF is about the same weight with about 20%+ more SA. The W/SA=3.22 which is high.
    --
    http://www.blaze-sailing.org.uk/blaze-info/specs-history.html
     

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  8. dylantorquerol
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    dylantorquerol Junior Member

    I live in Hawaii so I have seen a few vids and real-life surfboards with foils, as well as windsurfing boards. I might be wrong, but the foiling windsurfers seem as if they are slower then the non foilers. The board is at a 5-10 degree up angle, which I think is causing the foils to kind of stall in some weird way, or cause a lot more drag. I just think this foiling revolution is just so cool. I know that Assasin Moth has tried to make cheap foiler moths, but I wish there would just be some simple upgrades or kits for these "Foil capable" boats that are cheap, not like a $20,000 RS600FF.

    PS. Doug, thanks so much for posting all this great stuff to keep us informed. This is soooooooo cool!!!!! Keep it up!
    Dylan
     
  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    -------------------
    Thanks! The Rush Randle "air chair" conversion foils for windsurfers are definitely slower but boy can they jump and re-enter. The nature of this two foil system is biased toward successful jumping(re-entering without a crash).
    Its been my opinion for some time that a foil that would be fast could also be designed to jump safely on a "Peoples Foiler". Hopefully, we'll get a chance to find out....Now, there is another foil system for windsurfers that is supposed to be fast-and that is the Miller foil system.

    http://www.foils.org/miller.htm
     
  10. dylantorquerol
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    dylantorquerol Junior Member

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  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ---------------
    This is the Tomahawk prototype featuring the Jon Howe designed super foil
    that does not require an altitude control system(wand)-it is self controlling. The production was to be built by Ovington in the UK but that fell thru. The proto was built by Full Force-the same guys that build the carbon RS600FF......

    heres a thread with more: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/tomahawk-peoples-foiler-26364.html

    click on the image
     

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  12. dylantorquerol
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    dylantorquerol Junior Member

    Wow thanks for the quick reply. Very cool. I read that the foils come on the surface of the water and ventilate and plane on the surface. so cool!
     
  13. Eralnd44
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    Eralnd44 Wanderer

    please to take some easy on the foil medicine, mr. dylan. foil part to the sailing has with it the little bit good but maybe not for all. i have not big interest to that way and maybe to make many questions have no answers as to happyness.

    foil sail is very small part on the big sail boat party. maybe as to cooking as french chef is to man of everyday. who makes this way. who can have time.
     
  14. dylantorquerol
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    dylantorquerol Junior Member

    Thanks for your opinion Mr. Eralnd. I will sail a moth soon so I will see how much I like it.
     

  15. Eralnd44
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    Eralnd44 Wanderer

    please with fotos as you do moth ride.
     
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