New guy question

Greetings all. I am a hobby woodworker/welder. I want to build a sailboat. Iv been scouring the internet for schooner plans that I can build on my modest driveway, and I have one I like, the malabar 2 plans from...somewhere or other. The plans call for her to be carvel planked. My question is, can I safely go to strip planking and glass in place of carvel planking? Can I glass over carvel planks? I love her lines but I live near the great lakes and would prefer not to do a wooden hull in fresh water. I'm totally out of my depth here so any advice is welcome. Thank you.

 

Yes you can. Just keep the scantlings the same and laminate the frames instead of steam bending them. Glass the outside and apply three coats of epoxy on the inside, followed by varnish or paint.

 

It is outside the capabilities of anyone posting here to approve of a switch from carvel on frame to strip composite. The change requires engineering.

It is something you need to hire done by a competant naval architect, or else keep looking for plans to suit your build wishes.

I support your wishes to strip build. Plank on frame is altogether a different stlye of build.

 

Are we not missing a glass component in carvel vs strip?

That is, how much glass, and outside only gives me pause.

 

Welcome to the forum Mark.

I can certainly understand your reluctance to build/own a traditionally built (carvel planked) wooden boat on fresh water and on the Great Lakes where the boat may spend a good deal of time on the hard and therefore drying out. I would be reluctant to glass over a carvel planked boat; it is likely to create more issues than benefits.

Strip planking with glass & epoxy is certainly a solution - and may yield other benefits as well such as less cluttered/cleaner interior hull spaces. It does require a rethink of the scantlings, and the build process to take advantage of the technique to its fullest.

If you are up for some reading, Dave Gerr’s book, “The Elements of Boat Strength” provides good insight into how scantlings may vary between build processes. His scantling formulas are conservative - the objective (in my opinion) being to provide relatively uncomplicated scantling calculations resulting in a strong & safe vessel. It’s a good place to start and build a knowledge base - at less expense than making mistakes part way through a build.

Best wishes

 

Alden Schooner Malabar II https://www.woodenboatstore.com/products/alden-schooner-malabar-ii?

@Mark Rochacz Is this the boat?

 

"Strip planked" is a term that covers a wide spectrum of builds that use different engineering aproaches. That's because it only describes one aspect, planking made from a lot of individual strips. It's also older then a lot of people think, it was invented at the beginning of the 20th century to utilize the cheap offcuts from making dimensional lumber. Back then the strips were beveled and only nailed to each other, maybe with some paint in between. Later this evolved to glued and nailed, then only glued, the frame spacing was increased to match the new strength of the planking and lastly fiberglass was added first outside for superior waterproofing, then also inside turning the overall construction into a cored fiberglass build. There's also glueing veneers over the strips method, wich rightly belongs in the cold molded definition.

With a boat that was designed for carvel the simplest thing is to maintain the original scantlings and just use square strips instead of wide planks. The result will be a stronger boat (even if the strips are only nailed wich nobody does anymore), but it will sit on her lines and no additional engineering is required. Any outside glass is just for additional waterproofing, it doesn't actually matter how much you use. With all the epoxy even light glass survives without apreciable print trough.
The downside is that you use more wood then actually necessary since some of the plank thickness and framing is redundant.

You can of course redesign the scantlings to use the superior strength of a glued skin, or even to transform it into a cored fiberglass boat. This will result in a lighter boat, so you either add ballast or redraw the immersed part, etc.
The question is simple, you can use a little more wood, or you can pay the NA to redo the plans.

 

Ask the designer, you may be surprised by their answer.

 

You will need a seance with a medium to talk to the designer. I would be really surprised if he answers.

 

Elements of Boat Strength by Dave Gerr.

But yes, you absolutely can, exactly as Rumars says. It will be a much better boat, requiring far less skill, and mediocre wood is just fine.

 

Thank you all for the responses. I have elements of boat strength in my Amazon cart. A lot of valuable feedback on this forum. I thank you for your time.

 

Hi @Mark Rochacz, I wouldn't want to discourage you from your idea; quite the contrary, I want to help you bring it to fruition. Reading a book isn't enough to correctly build a ship's structure. Books give you formulas for calculating the dimensions of a pre-designed structure. But more important than that is designing the structure correctly. My advice is, if you really want to proceed (which you should reconsider two or three times), to seek the help of a professional (not an amateur builder) to guide you through the difficult steps you have to take.
Regarding one of your questions, in general you can place fiber on any wooden structure, whatever its construction system may be.

 

A Malabar is a huge undertaking for a single haded builder.It will take many years and the time will impact on many other aspects of your life.Too many projects begin with a flurry of enthusiasm and then tail off and eventually decompose before completion.Handling large pieces,such as the keel or stem is demanding and mistakes can be dangerous.I am not trying to put you off building a nice boat but be aware that too many enthusiasts have wound up divorced,homeless and broke.

Why not begin by building a nice tender for the schooner? It will build familiarity with all the stages of the process and give you something to get afloat in when the big project seems too daunting.

 

Jiminy Crickets! I just checked out the Malabar. A beautiful boat, but that is really a serious project. I have built two comparable boats before, and that would still give me pause. That being said, I would absolutely still it strip plank composite, with glass inside and out, minimal framing, and significantly thicker planking to maintain a comparable roll moment of inertial. I would also build all the deadwood from multiple layers, much like the strip plank hull sides....

 

Mark, as an alternative to building your own Malabar II schooner, you could buy one 'off the shelf' and go sailing as soon as the weather warms up a tad.

Here is one in Maine - she was built in 1996, and has an asking price of US$ 150,000.
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1996-custom-john-alden-malabar-ii-9456275/

And here is one in Australia that was built in 2004 - she has an asking price of $ 155,000 (I presume Aussie dollars).
Alden Schooner ~ Malabar II ~ Very unique opportunity https://wcboatbrokers.com.au/listings/alden-schooner-malabar-ii-very-unique-opportunity/

Both of these vessels can be bought for a small fraction of what it will cost you to build a sistership yourself.