New Gas,...BIG problems

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, Jun 14, 2014.

  1. powerabout
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    powerabout Senior Member

    at home in your toys avgas is the answer to e10/15 if you can get it
     
  2. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    sounds like greenpeace is all for coal fired power stations
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Upgrade all your fuel line to "Bio" compatible and you'll be fine. The old cork gaskets don't work, so get rebuild kits that also say "bio fuel" compatible. This is what it takes and the politics of it all are just what they are, unless one of you is able to shoot them all, so we can start over.
     
  4. BobE
    Joined: May 2014
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    BobE Junior Member

    Another thing that never seems to get mentioned is alcohol fuels lack of cold starting ability.
    Being stranded out in the cold might turn out to be more than just an inconvenience.
     
  5. ddoyle
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    ddoyle Junior Member

    Silver lining in every cloud is that the war/investment uncertaintity in the ukraine might just interupt enough of the global corn production ( are they the 3rd largest exporter IIRC?) to drive up the cost of food meal and end this ethanol foolishness.
     
  6. Skyak
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Skyak Senior Member

    Not to derail the topic but here are a few truths about fossil fuels, north america, and natural gas in particular
    -ethanol from corn does the US little to no good environmentally. It is a farm subsidy that would be illegal under trade rules if it were not 'for the environment'. The subsidy is pretty useless since the world is now happy to buy our grain at good prices. The only reason the ethanol charade continues is to show the government can stick to it's rules (so the ethanol plant investment pay off).
    -natural gas is selling at a 6:1 discount to oil in the US at about $4.5. The only significant exports are to Mexico and maybe Canada. Far more gas is 'flared' at the well than is exported. It is flared (burned into the atmosphere at the top of a tall pipe) because the price is too cheap to bother gathering and transporting it by anything other than pipelines. The pipelines take money and environmental approvals -which are being opposed by environmentalists.
    -natural gas use is growing mostly for electricity generation to replace coal plants. Very little is being used for transportation -which is a shame because running cars and trucks directly on nat-gas is better for the environment than running electric vehicles from gas power plants and far less costly. Fleet vehicles and lately long range trucking on nat gas are beginning now and the investment has a very short payback and good profit. It also does wonders for city and highway air quality.
    -Opposition to fracking is almost entirely a NIMBY thing. All quality studies done (and there have been many) say that fracking done right is the same as any oil or gas drilling. Fracking is relatively new and there are many locations that will not be drilled if fracking is banned so everyone with nothing to gain is opposed.
    -Ships mostly run on bunker fuel which is incredibly dirty and they pay no tax on it by international treaty. Some ports are requiring ships to run clean in proximity to their cities which is making natural gas a compelling fuel. This study looks well done -I would be very interested in professional opinions;
    http://www.gl-group.com/pdf/GL_MAN_LNG_study_web.pdf

    -Opposition to export of LNG is mostly funded by US refiners and chemical companies benefiting from the huge price disparity in feed-stock. The products these refiners produce are NOT controlled. I am all for using basic material advantages to promote manufacturing but these @%#%^%$ are not giving any advantage to US manufacturing and they are not expanding their own operations despite their crazy high returns. Stopping LNG export is nothing but a direct subsidy to chemical companies. The environmental impact of liquefying natural gas is minimal and the net effect is actually a great improvement when you consider changing ships from bunker fuel.

    The bottom line is that all the loudest voices in US energy policy are paid to lie. The best policy for the US environmentally and economically is to use natural gas to fill in between solar and wind. It is also counterproductive to restrict exports to benefit select industries. If you care about the environment cut your energy use, solar and wind are good investments, and any time someone asks you to oppose the use production or export of natural gas in the name of the environment tell them to shove it!
     
  7. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    Tboone pickens has spelled all this out, use the natural gas to fill in where gas on road vehicles is just a waste, then no need for ethanol in fuel and a billion dollars a day ( that you dont have) heading overseas
     
  8. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    Perfectly sound advice. Unfortunately nobody wants to take advice from a rich old white guy in the US when there are lots of sexy alarmist non-profit bozos in more desirable colors, genders, and tax brackets.
     
  9. jonr
    Joined: Sep 2008
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    jonr Senior Member

    Be careful with 100LL avgas. Synthetic oils (some/all?) will not suspend the lead and will create sludge in the crankcase. And expect more plug fouling.

    I may have to install some small valves to make draining the lines and carb easy.
     
  10. BMcF
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    BMcF Senior Member

    Hardly. Skyak nailed it. The project is literally in my "backyard" and I've been an avid supporter of it from the beginning. Greenpeace and a couple of other enviro-Nazi orgs have tried every dirty trick they know to kill the conversion of the existing facility from import to export....but the approvals just keep coming and the hurdles keep getting cleared. Should be starting work soon.
     
  11. Skyak
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Skyak Senior Member

    Thanks
    I consider myself extremely protective of the environment but I get a lot of abuse when I stand up against using environmental regulation and emotion against progress, the environment, and public good. A company is not evil just because it produces fossil fuel and organizations are not good or credible just because they are non-profit. I suspect there are more crooks in non-profit organizations and more lies peddled than in the corporate world. I just heard on CNBC that Greenpeace lost a buttload of money on a bad currency bet. Why is an environmental non-profit org betting on currency?
     
  12. BMcF
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    BMcF Senior Member

    The foundation of all the Greenpeace lies about the Cove Point project is an entirely false premise to start with. The facility has long existed, and been connected to LNG pipeline network, for the purpose of importing LNG. All the garbage being spewed and published by the enviro-nuts conveniently ignores that basic fact and tries to make it sound like this is some brand new mega-project being built on virgin unicorn pasture. Dominion is simply going to build the additional infrastructure required to reverse the direction that the LNG flows through that facility.
     
  13. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    I think all us gas terminals are being converted to export.
     
  14. BMcF
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    BMcF Senior Member

    I would hope so. But in actuality, I believe that only four of the initial export permits have been issued and moved further along. The Dominion Cove Point location might be the first one that is actually going to be exporting...or certainly close to being the first.

    There is a pretty big LNG terminal and storage facility just east of the Ingalls yard in Pascagoula..where I've been working for a lot of years. I expect that's one that will be converted too, eventually, but I've seen no news on that possibility yet.
     

  15. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Is Europe using this 'ethanol diluted gasoline'?

    If not, then likely cars produced over there may require some conversion/modification to run on our American fuel?
     
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