New Figaro 3 launch and first sail

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Dolfiman, Sep 3, 2017.

  1. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Interesting interview, thanks. I see that the foil is only used upwind in more than 12 knots, even on a shorthanded boat. That means in many places in the world, they will normally not be used. That's a lot of hassle for something that isn't used regularly.

    Thomas also says that there are a lot of foiling dinghies, which is an illustration of the hype flying around. There's only a few dozen foiling dinghies in France and I don't think they even do regular regattas. Of interest, this year's Moth nationals in Australia, one of the foiler's strongholds, was only 2/3 as big as usual. The revolution just isn't happening.
     
  2. Doug Lord
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  3. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Oh, I wish there were lots of foiling boats around - as long as their promoters stopped denigrating other types by claiming they were inferior or not part of the sport's future. And as long as the sport recognised that economy and simplicity attract more people than speed.

    The claims that foilers will become truly popular keep failing to come to fruition. For about 15 years now people have been making the same claim and not once has it become true. To assume that after 15 years things will change and foilers will not only become popular but become popular on cruisers, as claimed in the vid, goes against all experience.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  4. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    Numbers go up and down, usually as a function of the distance from Sydney which is where the biggest fleets are. 51 boats at the 2016 Perth Nationals was an exception, the previous Perth event in 2010 (?) had just 15 boats, with 25 turning up in Queensland (Keppel Bay) in 2014.

    I don't know why numbers were down this year, Wangi is a great place to sail from and a wonderful holiday location. And only one woman in the fleet. :-(
     
  5. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    I was surprised by the small fleet given the location, too. In no way have I ever hoped that the foilers would not do well - as I'm sure reasonable people know, all I'm trying to do is to bring some facts to highlight the yawning gap between hype and reality. In the same way, many of the classes I've sailed and loved the most never got really strong fleets, and we just have to recognise that.

    The size of the gap between fast sailors and not so fast ones must be discouraging. As another example, in the last A Class heat, Glenn finished the first lap just 27 seconds after the last boat got to the top mark - and there were no duffers in the Moth or A Class fleets. A couple of days later in ideal conditions, the Moths seemed to be opening up even larger gaps. I've done time in fast Olympic classes where the same sort of gaps open up and it's very discouraging, even when I knew that if it blew hard I'd be much closer to the action. To know that you were always going to be that far behind isn't appealing to most sailors.

    If we just recognised that foilers are a wonderful niche and a great addition to the sailing scene, rather than spouting this "foilers are the future" rubbish and undermining the truly popular types, the entire sport could be looking a lot healthier. This sort of hype made windsurfing a shadow of its former self and we can't just let the BS slide by.

    This is relevant to the Figaro, because it's an example of promoting a complex, inaccessible system as "the future" and therefore arguably harming the sport.
     
  6. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    I don't think the gaps between first and last (or even first and second) are such an issue of themselves, what is really discouraging for the also–rans is sailing with the big names and never getting to see them actually sail other than for the occasional upwind/downwind cross. You're better off on a spectator boat near the top mark. The best view of them in action is the "bangin' the corners cup", which is set on a short, spectator–friendly course (and is a great spectacle). But you can watch that for free, no need to register and sail. :)

    I have to agree that while the Figaro is an interesting boat, the benefits of the foils seem to be marginal, so unlikely to be adopted by cruising sailors. The application of curved boards to cruising multi-hulls seems fairly straight forward, though not many have done it because most don't sail at speeds where they're of use. Adding foils to monohulls adds much more complexity to the boat that I'm sure most can do without.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  7. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    I think that Beneteau takes this Figaro III opportunity to test the market with in mind to propose such foils arrangement as an option for some of there regular models, there are always amateurs avid of edge techno model.

    You should also notice that early comments mention a pleasant behaviour in waves and a softer helm when foils are used, beyond or whatever speed this is also an argument to consider.
     
  8. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  9. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    This new video of Figaro III, very informative on its manufacture (the hull by the infusion technique), that of the foils, the keel bulb, the bow and its front waterlines (to fix at 2:45 or 2:54 and zoom) :
     
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  10. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Here is a new video release by Beneteau 28 Feb. :
     
  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    2018 Pacific Cup--the Foiler (Revolution) Approaches( not a foiler exactly but foil assist and doing very well)----Dolfiman* was right!!
    Pressure Drop - July 20 Race Report: The Foiler Approaches http://www.pressure-drop.us/forums/content.php?8481-July-20-Race-Report-The-Foiler-Approaches

    Figaro 3-Pacific Cup.jpg

    * Thanks for the detailed info on page 1:
    "Lauriot-Prevot can record the effect with impressive numbers. At 15 knots, the foil produces a considerable vertical lift of around 400 daN, thus the equivalent of a half ton. As the weight of the Figaro 3 compared with the previous one (Figaro 2) is reduced by 200 kg and that the missing water-ballast represents 270 kg, the boat displacement will be reduced by a total of 900 kg less - about a third of the total weight. An enormous effect that directly affects the speed potential and explains the pivoting of Beneteau to the airfoil technology"
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  12. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    First race and first win, great news for this prototype, actually from 2019 onwards the monotype for the french championship of offshore races, including the "La solitaire du Figaro", which forms the pool of the future top sailors for Vendée Globe and Ultime races.
    Macif team just decided to buy two Figaro 3 for its Skipper Macif programme, to detect and support young talents in line with Francois Gabart. The selection of the two skippers is opened through this timeline, I see no mention of any mandatory nationality but I suppose that to be fluent in French is requested. It is a 2 to 3 years position with a living :
    La sélection du Skipper Macif 2019 en dates :
    Du 02/07 au 15/09/2018 minuit : Dépôt des dossiers de candidature.
    Fin septembre 2018 : Sélection sur dossier de 5 candidats au maximum
    Du 15/10 au 19/10/2018 : Epreuves sportives : à terres et régates sur Figaro Bénéteau 2
    19/10/2018 : Soutenance individuelle de son Projet devant jury

    If you are a young but already experienced sailor, with some singlehanded races in your CV (Mini 650, Le Figaro, ...) you can now apply before sept. 15 using this form :
    https://www.macifcourseaularge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Formulaire-Inscription-2018.pdf
    Selection criteria :
    https://www.macifcourseaularge.com/.../Principe-de-selection-Skipper-MACIF-2018.pdf
     
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  13. Doug Lord
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  14. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    In the recent Bol d"Or thread and others, it was claimed that when a foiler did well in class on handicap it was proof that the foiler performed well. In this case, the foiler finished last in class. If we're going to be consistent, this must be seen to be proof that the foiler did badly. Personally I think it's more important that we closely examine the rules and situation.

    The F3 was 4% quicker than the Antrim 27, which is 5ft shorter and many years older. Given the usual rough rule of thumb which says that 1% of length gives 1% of speed, the Antrim seems to have performed marginally better so in this instance the F3 and its foil seem to have shown little proof of superiority. It's a pity that the boat started days apart from most of the comparable boats like the Melges 32, since we still don't really know how it would perform head to head.
     

  15. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    The most direct judgement should be the comparison between F3 anf F2, F3 being supposed (and designed ) to be faster by an average 15%. But that info is not available up to now ….
     
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