New boat company - seeking opinions

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by salglesser, May 19, 2012.

  1. PsiPhi
    Joined: May 2007
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    Location: Queensland

    PsiPhi Newbie

    In my limited knowledge of the subject that boat looks great, and a lot of people who know more than me about the subject are obviously giving you a lot of good advice.

    One thing, that Seafarer touched on briefly, is the web site itself.

    I spent 18 years selling photo gear and working closely with professional photographers, and although I am only a mediocre photographer myself, I know a little about the subject. In general I think the photos are OK, there are plenty of them and they are of good quality. I think your next photo shoot should aim for a warmer day with more blue in the sea though, it looks kind of cold there. The Trailer ones might benefit from a more interesting setting too.

    I am also a qualified software engineer (but NOT a web designer) and have been working in IT for the last fifteen years. I think the web site is one place where you can add some WOW factor to your company. The background image, the menus, the general layout - it all has a 1980's uni student project feel to it.
    I apologies to your web designer, they have undoubtedly put some time and effort into the project, but it has been pointed out that you are aiming at the high end market, so are a lot of other people, you need to seduce them with a slick and seemless website.

    Finally, I'd like to wish you all the best, you have the courage to do what a lot of other people only dream about.

    Simon.
     
  2. brehm62
    Joined: Mar 2011
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    Location: Indiana

    brehm62 Junior Member

    Maybe the trailer tongue is longer than mine. When I raise up the hatchback on my minivan it only clears the bow by a few inches.

    Mine are fully submerged.

    My 23' mast is 39 lbs including the standing rigging.

    I can lift mine and then walk it up but when I get to the cabin hatch I have very little leverage so it is quite a bit of effort. And, then of course you have to try to hold it with one hand so you can pull on the jib halyard with the other. And, you have to hold it because the mast is raked backwards so it will happily fall if you don't keep pressure on it.

    Similar to mine but you apparently have the main cut taller.
    Boom - 9' 3"
    Main - 88 sq ft
    Jib - 61 sq ft
    Genoa - 121 sq ft

    Is my math off? Losing 3" at the top and 12" at the bottom you would have 20.75' of height. If you lose 3" on the boom you have 8'.
    20.75' x 8' /2 = 83 sq ft. That would seem to mean that you would have 15 sq ft of roach above the leech line. Is that possible?

    My boom hangs down so I probably have about that towards the end of the boom but I'm up about 54" at the mast. So, I would say that I have too much rake. I could probably fit a main 18" taller.
     
  3. scoob
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Golden, CO

    scoob Junior Member

    video of raising the mast -

    http://youtu.be/yVtzcyem1Cs


    there is a good amount of roach in the sail.

    the numbers reported come from the loft based on their computer output of the sail area based on Jerry's sail plan.

    all boats are different but on those i've sailed if the boom is significantly lower at the end than the gooseneck the sail is blown out. on my 'new to me' boats after getting new sails the boom is horizontal. Sage 17's boom is also horizontal.
     
  4. brehm62
    Joined: Mar 2011
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    Location: Indiana

    brehm62 Junior Member

    That explains it. It looks like you have a reach distance of about 34" from the cabin hatch. I have a reach distance of 54". That's too far to reach so I have to step down on the cooler step and that puts the cabin roof about waist high. So, I get a foot less leverage.

    The old sail could be but the new sail looks to be in good shape.

    I'll attach a picture. You can see that the boom does hang down and the mast appears raked much further than it should be. I didn't really see much rake in your video. I think I need to adjust the stays and take out at least half of the rake. Your jib is definitely cut lower.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. scoob
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Golden, CO

    scoob Junior Member

    Sage 17's mast doesn't have a lot of rake, the masthead is about 4" aft of the tabernacle.

    with the fractional rig it is very easy to adjust bend to tune the boat on the fly to the wind condition. as weather helm increases when going to weather on Sage 17 increase bend with the backstay adjuster to flatten the sail to balance the helm. going off the wind on Sage 17 release the backstay tension and let the mast go forward.

    the rig tension on Sage 17 is 'loose' when compared to a masthead rig.

    exact tuning depends so much on the boat and how you sail. do you have excessive lee or weather helm? are there times (ie, wind and or sea state) where the helm doesn't feel right?

    another issue may be the sail loft cut the main wrong as they didn't know how much rake to design into the sail ... resulting in the boom been so far down at the aft end.
     
  6. scoob
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Golden, CO

    scoob Junior Member

    have you thought about creating a gin pole system? the shrouds on your boat are in-line with the mast (port to starboard) so they tension just as the rig begins to rise and will control the mast sway port and starboard. a gin pole increases rigging time, but with your mast so far forward it may reduce your mast raising/lowering stress.
     
  7. brehm62
    Joined: Mar 2011
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    Location: Indiana

    brehm62 Junior Member

    The shrouds don't tension until the mast is nearly up.

    Since the mast is not that heavy what I will probably do is make two mast crutches. I need one at the stern in order to raise the mast up enough to pin it because the cabin hatch is higher than the mast step. Then I need a second mast crutch that I can put in the cabin doorway and rest the mast at an angle. From that point you can use both hands on the jib halyard and hoist it.
    A mast crutch in the cabin is used in this video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKjUi2h0mX8
     
  8. scoob
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Golden, CO

    scoob Junior Member

    interesting. i have a boat with the shrouds in-line that they are tensioned just as the mast starts going up.

    well ... all boats are a bit different.
     
  9. brehm62
    Joined: Mar 2011
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    Location: Indiana

    brehm62 Junior Member

    Yes, when configured properly that does happen. However, my chainplates are set aft about 7". They did that because the roof arch was in the way and they couldn't go forward of the roof arch because it would have been too close to the front window. Ideally the front window would have been moved to put the chainplates in the right spot.
     

  10. scoob
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Golden, CO

    scoob Junior Member

    OK ... i couldn't see that from the perspective in the picture you shared.


    aft raked shrouds/spreaders may be correct for how the headsail options are to be used. this is where information from your boat's builder/designer can be helpful.

    Sage 17's spreaders/shrouds are raked aft 22 degrees. this provides room for a larger headsail to sheet inside the shrouds and the boat to sail a bit better into the wind v. sheeting the headsail to the toerails.
     
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