New boat company - seeking opinions

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by salglesser, May 19, 2012.

  1. scoob
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Golden, CO

    scoob Junior Member

    this is good detail. thanks for sharing. 2x or 3x wasn't giving me enough information to understand your POV.


    that is a photo of the second prototype cushions. we were needing to get the photoshot completed. not poor quality ... they are 1/4" too big (port to starboard; bow to stern). the bevel was incorrect. the canvas shop re-did the cushions. (as i had the cushions 'in stock' i offered them to a Sage 17 owner at a discount. they accepted the cushions and are happily sailing the boat as i type this.)

    we are in-process of updating our photos. this is being done between boat building activities as we have backorders for boats.

    the foam is high density. this is why the 'squeezing' is so significant as the product wants to hold it's shape and not easily compress (unlike the cheap stuff).

    we are a semi-custom builder. customer wants memory foam and/or a different fabric we credit them our cushion cost and then re-spec to meet their preferences.

    we have a boat in the production timeline that will have cabin cushions covered with striped sunbrella, not the velour cushions (the stock fabric name is 'honeycomb', multiple color options).

    another boat will not have teak slats on the cabin seats nor a bow pulpit.


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  2. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Scoob,

    I think semi custom is defiantly the way to go at start up, but the public face of the boat needs to pretty much be 'with all options'. This is the way car companies work too. Yes you can get a car without a sun roof, but if it is an option, it will always be in the commercials.

    Note, the following is going to come off as very critical, it is not intended as such. I have worked on bringing boats to the public, and trying to get the first few prototypes out the door, and had the same problems i am pointing out. Honestly I am not criticizing, starting a boat company in this market is almost crazy, and the fact you have back orders is wonderful, but as your market expands pictures become the sales brochure, and pictures of ill fitting/poorly made proto-type stuff detracts from the perceived quality of the boat.

    I have theme issue with the tied on main sheet in some of the pictures. There is absolutely nothing wrong with tiring on a sheet, but to me it always makes a boat look like the owner is trying to cheap out, either because they won't pay the $40 to get it spliced or won't spend the time learning. Either way to me this indicates a poor attention to detail. When it is from a manufacturer it calls into question the attention to detail of the entire build.

    It very well may be that reducing the number of pictures on the site would be better than having up shots of a prototype. Just to keep the number of faults down. That or work diligently to try and replace the prototype pictures with finished one.
     
  3. scoob
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Golden, CO

    scoob Junior Member

    no concerns. sharing information. feedback is why Sal started this tread.

    i'm hoping that my posts are being read as providing detail for what can been seen (ie, in the photos) and some of the thought process that has been done so far.


    costs a lot less than that to have ends spliced and whipping the bitter end. again, both are standard on Sage 17.


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  4. Richard Woods
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    I saw the Sage 17 sailing at the Lake Havasu PCC and I must say I thought it was a really nice looking boat that sailed extremely well. It also seemed to be well setup.

    So I hope it becomes as successful as it should be.

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  5. salglesser
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Colorado, USA

    salglesser Junior Member

    Hi Richard,

    Thanx for the kind words. I must say, as a long time multihull afi, I enjoyed watching your trimaran sail in Havasu as well. (I'm the knife guy).

    sal
     
  6. HakimKlunker
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Thailand

    HakimKlunker Andreas der Juengere

    A charming boat overall and I basically like it.
    However, when you mention high quality: I can see indications outside, but not inside: Lots of visible screws, a GRP finish that does not look too attractive (ceiling) and somewhat cheap looking upholstery. You may want to think over these details.
    If you have in mind high performance: why do you not show it on the videos?
    And somehow I wonder about the relevance of a cat in a boat presentation. (unless it would be a catamaran)
    I am sure that you are convinced to do the right thing. This only does not sell your boats. I believe that you can (and will) do better on the marketing side.
    I mean that all in a friendly way. Keep going :)
     
  7. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    Nice little pocket cruiser. I too followed Montgomery's the columns in Small Craft Adviser, it is always interesting to know the thought process of the designer.

    I think it might help sales to pay more attention to interior colors and perhaps the finishing details. Already noted are the cushions, but also, the rest of the inside looks rather raw and uninteresting. I think if you choose a few bright colors in certain places it might also helps sales, particularly from the female half of a family.

    It might be worth finding an interior designer that is familiar with sailing to suggest a few simple color combinations and appearance improvements to improve the looks of the inside. You have to paint the surfaces anyway, why not use some pleasing colors.

    I know more interior finish will add costs, but there has to be some simple way to make the inside look finished. All those fastener heads along the ceiling were not only unattractive and unfinished looking, my first thought was they might cause injury. Or have you changed your installation method for the deck fittings?
     
  8. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    The upholstery is poor. It does look like the economy 70s style. If it wasn't sagging and wrinkling the cushions would look much better. The same foam with tighter upholstery would be a huge improvement. I prefer other color than brown too.
     
  9. scoob
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Golden, CO

    scoob Junior Member

    we have a headliner option -

    [​IMG]


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  10. scoob
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Golden, CO

    scoob Junior Member

    we provide the option of a spray-in insulating product that provides a 'stucco-like' interior finish to the cabin. this can also be applied to the interior hull spaces to reduce condensation and noise. the product is Mascoat DTM -

    http://www.mascoat.com/mascoat-marine-insulating-paint.html


    we can then over-coat the Mascoat DTM with color to meet the customer's preference.

    picture below of boat currently in production just after Mascoat DTM applied. the color is how DTM looks 'out of the bucket' -

    [​IMG]
     
  11. scoob
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Golden, CO

    scoob Junior Member

    so far the most popular color for the cushions is the 'brown'. i personally prefer blue -

    [​IMG]


    to each their own :)


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  12. HakimKlunker
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Thailand

    HakimKlunker Andreas der Juengere

    Dave, I like the photos. That looks already better than what I (and others) saw on your website.
    There seems to be nothing wrong with the boat and only the presentation needs some fine tuning.
     
  13. salglesser
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Colorado, USA

    salglesser Junior Member

    We'd like to thank all of you for your suggestions and comments. Good stuff!

    We'll keep you posted on future developments.

    sal
     
  14. MoeJoe
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Stockholm, Sweden

    MoeJoe Junior Member

    Very nice boat! I would not mind trading my StorTriss MkII to one of those at all. :) I also reacted on those screws in the roof. Looks a lot better and safer with the headliner. I've hit my head in the roof several times in my boat of similar size.

    Sort of shame that you made storage instead of side beds (births?) under the cockpit seats. 4 good friends could squeeze in then.

    Unfortunately, there's no trailer-sailer with centerboard and kick-up rudder like that sold in Sweden, at least as far as I know..
     

  15. salglesser
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Colorado, USA

    salglesser Junior Member

    Hi MoeJoe,

    thanx. Most of the screws have been converted to a special design that has flat heads on the inside. But the headliner is also an option.

    We really deliberated quite a while on quarterbereths under the cockpit seats. The designer (Jerry Montgomery) wanted more performance where possible and he felt that the addition of berths would require raising the cockpit seats so high that it would add much windage, thus affecting upwind performance. (and probably affecting the appearance) So in the end the berths lost. Besides, four people sleeping in a 17 foot boat would certainly be cozy. A number of years ago, I took a train from Amsterdam to Stockholm, stayed in a sleeping car with multiple berths. The room in the boat might be less. Tolerable, but maybe not of which to look forward.

    I owe my friend in Stockholm a visit. Since it's a "pocket Cruiser", I'll put one in my "pocket" for you. ;) We do have one going to the far East. A shortage there as well.

    sal
     
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