New Battery

Discussion in 'OnBoard Electronics & Controls' started by rasorinc, Nov 15, 2014.

  1. rasorinc
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: OREGON

    rasorinc Senior Member

  2. BertKu
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    The problem is, the Oil Industry will make an offer, this company cannot refuse for selling their 50% + shares and all what happen thereafter is that everybody comes to work and sit around and do nothing and go home with a full pay pack.

    The oil industry cannot afford to have good idea's and products cutting into their future existence. Very sadly, but check every brilliant idea what came on the market , it disappeared or was placed on the market at a ridicules higher price to keep everybody at bay. Bert
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Really, another conspiracy theory?
     
  4. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    No conspiracy theory, just hard reality. Bert
     
  5. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Oh yes, brilliant ideas like solar panels, LEDs, insulation, fuel injection, they have all disappeared from the market because the Oil Industry bought 50%+ of their shares and they couldn't say no. Really????
     
  6. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Gonzo, My wife always say, you don't argue with a person who pulls you to a lower level. But sometimes it is fun to argue and make a point. Yes, LED's are very cheap. Nonsense, where can you get a LED lamp which is cheaper than the old fashioned bulb,lamp,globe. They are 6 times more expensive.

    I have personal experience with the oil industry when I was involved and high up in the Solar Energy Society and also was the Chairperson of the Electronic components Manufacturing Association.

    We have very good silicon sand up in the North to grow silicon rods.

    The people living their, needed work. We had in those days very inexpensive electricity.

    We have bauxite in the ground for aluminum frames.

    We have a glass industry for making hardened glass.

    We have hundreds of miles electrical traction underground in the mines, thus we had the experience in electrical traction, and production of batteries.

    We have lots of sunshine.

    We have an automotive assembling and components industry in the country .

    Our calculations and proposal was to grow silicon and make solar cells at USA$ 0.10 per watt. We also suggested to design and make an small electric car with the combined industry.
    The proposal was to have with a large number of households mounting 100m2 solar panels on their roof, What happened? The Shell and the oil industry moved in and took the total management over. That was it 35 years ago. The project was killed.

    You think they did that for the fun?

    Any CEO will sit down at regular times with his top staff and ask the question, what are the threats to our existence. I have done that in my division, so does hundreds of other managers. What would you, Gonzo do, to secure the future of the oil industry? Make very cheap Lithium batteries? Nonsense. You would be suicidal to your industry. You would make sure that you either control the inputs or the raw material prices itself. Should you have calculated that the prices are not be able to be a threat, you move on to the next product and raw materials , like super capacitors and the need for raw material inputs. Sorry Gonzo, Any industry tries to protect themselves via an association and they will do the dirty work for you.
    Bert
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
  7. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Which Electronic components Manufacturing Association?
     
  8. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    No, not the American one. I am not going to argue anymore. We will never convince you, that all companies and industries do try to protect themselves.
    Bert
     
  9. Poida
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    Poida Senior Member

    The oil industry buying patents is a fact and if you don't know that you have been living under a rock.

    However research and installations done by governments may be hard for them to get their hands on.

    Poida
     
  10. rasorinc
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    rasorinc Senior Member

    I was hoping when I posted this artical to get info about the battery and different sizes an more general discusion of the positive and negatives of this product. I DID NOT EXPECT AN ARGUMENT ABOUT CORPORATE CONDUCT...

    Please nock it off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  11. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Our apology, thank you for intervening. I also wish that batteries would become cheaper and will get more energy for less weight and volume. What is your interest in getting better batteries? Do you also have a weight problem? Maybe you should try for an answer at the thread "Batteries and New battery technology" and see what the experts has to say about it. Bert
     
  12. groper
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    groper Senior Member

    Here's the negative... A single battery unit of 2.4kwh (same capacity as a 12v 200ah) weighs 113kgs, and is 900x300x300mm in size. This is why it's completely unsuitable for boats and other mobile energy storage requirements -ie, low energy density ... It's also unable to provide high discharge rates. They specifically note that it's target market is low cost, stationary energy storage solutions , for the above reasons. A suitable application might be a 25kwh pallet sized home house bank, charged by a rooftop solar array during the day, and discharged by house loads overnight, thereby offering a lower cost means of storing energy and being able to cut loose from rising grid electricity prices...
     
  13. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Thank you groper. Congratulations on your free trade deal with china, it should make the import of lithium batteries cheaper for you.
    Bert
     
  14. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    I watched youtube video with interview from designer, he says these are for stationary use. Looks like they make tall stacks, not good for car or boat.



    To succeed in the market, this will have to be cheap to compete with utility grid power. Consider that for now is only a tiny market, which does not help make it cheaper for everyone.
    Expensive solar panels plus expensive batteries just not going there myself.
     

  15. groper
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    groper Senior Member

    Depends on what your paying for electricity. .. we have seen unprecedented price increases here in Australia, where I live they now charge us 90c per day just to be connected to the grid before any power is used. Then it's 30c per kwh after that peak tariff with alot of restrictions on what you can and can't put on economy tariff s.

    It's almost at the point where a solar array of between 3-5kw with a decent battery is cheaper over a 10 year period assuming the batteries last as long as they claim. This is at current electricity prices. My average yearly electricity bill is $2000 without air conditioning. With air con over summer the bill almost doubles. Therefore with a 10 year service life, I could spend over 20K on a system and come out in front.

    This battery is supposed to cost $250 per kwh. So $5k buys an average home house bank. The solar is another 5k, the inverter another 2k, the rest goes on installation costs. Therfore we are right on the break even point at current prices. Probably past it when you consider the solar lasts more like 20 years and the installation is a one off if the modules are made user replaceable. ..
     
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