net nuetrality

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by SamSam, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    SamSam Senior Member

  2. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    Net Neutrality Prevails In Historic FCC Vote

    WASHINGTON -- The Federal Communications Commission voted Thursday to approve strong net neutrality rules in a stunning decision that defies vocal, months-long opposition by telecom and cable companies and Republicans on Capitol Hill.

    Democratic Commissioners Jessica Rosenworcel and Mignon Clyburn joined Chairman Tom Wheeler to approve a rule that reclassifies consumer broadband as a utility under Title II of the Communications Act.

    "The Internet is simply too important to allow broadband providers to be the ones making the rules," Wheeler said prior to the vote.

    At the vote, Clyburn pointed out that "absent the rules we adopt today," ISPs would be "free to block, throttle, favor or discriminate ... for any user, for any reason, or for no reason at all."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/26/net-neutrality-fcc-vote_n_6761702.html

    .
     
  3. Kailani
    Joined: Apr 2013
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    Kailani Senior Member

    Verizon responded in low bandwidth that wouldn't be throttled :D

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    http://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...ode-net-neutrality-20150226-story.html#page=1
     
  4. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Geeez, I haven't seen the Morse code for ages! :D
     
  5. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Translated: TODAY'SDECISIONBYTHEFCCTOENCUMBERBROADBANDINTERNETSERVICESWITHBADLYANTIQUATEDREGULATIONSISARADICALSTEPTHATPRESAGESATIMEOFUNCERTAINTYFORCONSUMERS,INNOVATORSANDINVESTORS.OVERTHEPASTTWODECADESABIPARTISAN,LIGHT-TOUCHPOLICYAPPROACHUNLEASHEDUNPRECEDENTEDINVESTMENTANDENABLEDTHEBROADBANDINTERNETAGECONSUMERSNOWENJOY.THEFCCTODAYCHOSETOCHANGETHEWAYTHECOMMERCIALINTERNETHASOPERATEDSINCEITSCREATION.CHANGINGAPLATFORMTHATHASBEENSOSUCCESSFULSHOULDBEDONE,IFATALL,ONLYAFTERCAREFULPOLICYANALYSIS,FULLTRANSPARENCY,ANDBYTHELEGISLATURE,WHICHISCONSTITUTIONALLYCHARGEDWITHDETERMININGPOLICY.ASARESULT,ITISLIKELYTHATHISTORYWILLJUDGETODAY'SACTIONSASMISGUIDED.THEFCC'SMOVEISESPECIALLYREGRETTABLEBECAUSEITISWHOLLYUNNECESSARY.THEFCCHADTARGETEDTOOLSAVAILABLETOPRESERVEANOPENINTERNET,BUTINSTEADCHOSETOUSETHISORDERASANEXCUSETOADOPT300-PLUSPAGESOFBROADANDOPEN-ENDEDREGULATORYARCANATHATWILLHAVEUNINTENDEDNEGATIVECONSEQUENCESFORCONSUMERSANDVARIOUSPARTSOFTHEINTERNETECOSYSTEMFORYEARSTOCOME.WHATHASBEENANDWILLREMAINCONSTANTBEFORE,DURINGANDAFTERTHEEXISTENCEOFANYREGULATIONSISVERIZON'SCOMMITMENTTOANOPENINTERNETTHATPROVIDESCONSUMERSWITHCOMPETITIVEBROADBANDCHOICESANDINTERNETACCESSWHEN,WHERE,ANDHOWTHEYWANT.
     
  6. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Welcome to heavy handed centralized gov that limits free speech, a natural right of man.
     
  7. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    Obama and dems also want to make the internet regulated like a public utility and then it will have federal taxes placed on it!

    I seriously hope people express their displeasure about such a thing.
    Otherwise when you get your bill, there will be federal line charges on it.
     
  8. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    SamSam Senior Member

    According to the last sentence, The lady doth protest too much, methinks. They seem to say they're going to keep on keepin' on no matter what. They're just whining because the
    playing field has been leveled a little bit.

    The way Big Business wanted it, without the FCC regulations, would have left BB free to censor, restrict or allow whatever material they wanted. Sure, your natural right to free speech would
    allow you to ***** about it, but not on the intertubenet.

    Unregulated capitalism, and unregulated human beings, are nasty things.
     
  9. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    So now Netflix wont have to pay the ISP's to ensure they get a fair amount of bandwidth?

    I suppose innovation may be less with the ruling, as less incentives to make more money.

    I would love to see a cheap hi speed internet country wide. Google is trialing wifi with balloons.
    The idea is they will float around dishing out wifi on airwaves and will be cheaper to operate than putting cables in ground and wires on towers.
     
  10. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
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    philSweet Senior Member

    As far as I have been able to determine, the only ones neutralized so far have been the consumers.
     
  11. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    That's kind of funny, because as far as I know, up to very, very recently, net neutrality was a given.

    It's only in the very recent past that suggestions that you could pay more to get your packets prioritised got floated at all. This to do with commercial streaming of video for the most part.

    So - please explain just how the consumers have been neutralised? Because I really don't see it. More like maintaining the level playing field that's existed since the internet came into being.

    PDW
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
  12. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Wow, you guys need to figure out what's really happened with this FCC ruling. In a nut shell, it's been determined and justifiably so, that broadband service is an essential utility, much like electricity and allowing the service providers to make the rules, just isn't reasonable or appropriate. Yeah, NetFlix and Amazon account for a huge amount of bandwidth, but welcome to retail sales in the 21st century. The bottom line is this just means that ISP's are going to be classified differently and regulated, just like anything else with this big an impact on money. It would be quite different if the net was only a place kids used to play games, but it's way past this and this reclassification has been needed for some time folks. In the end, now all ISP's have to treat all services equally, which they aren't at the moment.

    The consumer isn't affected at all, just those that want to restrain high bandwidth users and service providers, particularly those in direct competition with ISP's. This is because the hand writting is on the wall for some of these ISP providers, such as Comcast, who's been doing it's best to buy up all the little cable providers in the country, knowing full well what's about to hit their bottom line in the next 5-10 years. Simply put, there's not going to be any cable TV in 10 years, as it'll all going to be streamed, cutting them out of a big loop. To delay the inevitable, they (and others) are attempting to lock up the market and protect a now obsolete infrastructure they've cultivated.

    Telecoms have been pretty notorious streaming some videos of a news story (as an example) at faster rates to preferred providers or sister companies, while blocking or slowing others. ISPs won't be able to pick and choose which sites run well on your connection or site you elect to use or service you hope to do business with.
     
  13. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

    Unless you have trashbags of money to throw around, you can't even be heard now. And negotiating nonexclusive services with ISPs doesn't qualify as non-neutral in my book. I'm quite certain that the FCC can't do anything except guarantee that no new tech will be delivered via regulated ISPs unless the FCC, and presumably the ISPs themselves, approve of it as a whole. ISPs are now essentially being guaranteed a percentage of all future innovation, and will also be expected to deliver all new tech. This might be a relief to ISP stock holders, but it certainly doesn't bode well for adaptability going forward. To me, network neutrality means services are offered to all comers, and priced the same to all comers, not that there is only one level of service to be had.

    Since the actual wording of the FCC ruling has not been released to the public (the actual regulations), am I wrong in thinking the details still depend on those bags of cash walking around Washington? It reads to me like the FCC has simply announced that all expediters and lobbyists should now report to the FCC, we now offer one-stop shopping for internet regulation.

    It has been said that the regulations harken back to the age of steam and telegraph. That's a bit ironic. Those were both entirely displaced with better technology in a virtual instant. They also weren't delivered into the home. This is more like regulating the milk man. The FCC has decided everyone will get an equal share of eggnog at Christmas. No extras and no opting out, but some of it might be soured and arrive after Christmas. And any attempt to get all the eggnog delivered by Christmas or before it sours is now criminal behavior.

    Network neutrality in no way changes the fact that some 1s and 0s are worth more than others, or that in some cases their value may be entirely due to their timeliness. Forcing ISPs to pretend this isn't true is just silly. ISPs can not increase the value of the data they are fed, but they sure as hell can reduce it. And they are being told they can't manage things to preserve the value. I think that's nuts.

    I also think The ISPs (the really big ones) are crying some crocodile tears here, because they are being given some very strong protection against future disruptions. Lets say an ISP floats a bond to build out a community. FCC regs get written to facilitate bond issues. The bonds are bought by that municipalty and basically reissued as munis and the whole business is a house of cards based on FCC regs. We've been down this road before. This is not the way to do infrastructure, it is just a way to do accounting.

    If the FCC had wanted to do something constructive, it could have issued minimum specs for network performance, and said you can't sign up new customers at speed X unless you can deliver to the specs for speed X. Maybe we can start a war between the FTC truth in advertising people and the FCC. That could be fun.

    Anyway, just some ramblings at 1 am. How does my milkman analogy hold up?
     
  14. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
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    philSweet Senior Member

    Cross posted with PAR.

    I agree with you on a lot of that, but not that the consumer is unaffected. I think the consumer is being taken out of the loop and replaced by the FCC. I agree that there is a huge vested interest in protecting cable. How can a content provider place a value on his internet content if he can't secure a delivery contract that preserves his value. "I make great milk, but it may be sour when it gets to you" is not a good business plan. Even if there is no one to complain to and no other milk and you know everybody else gets sour milk as well, there is the fundamental question of the value being delivered. There is no getting around that.
     

  15. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    Alternatively, the owners of **** sites have huge amounts of money & traffic so pay the ISP's to prioritise streaming data to/from their sites. Other people - say NPR on the net if there is such a thing - publish something the ISP's don't like and now find traffic to/from *their* web addresses are now measured in speeds of kilobits per decade or worse.

    Or for your food one, MacDonalds pays up big, buys the bandwidth and the fresh food/veg people get what's left. The sugar loaded flavoured milk people pay more than the local milkman so.....

    At any given time, bandwidth is a zero sum game. Sure there needs to be incentives for people to build more bandwidth but priority charging was heading straight to monopoly domination by those with the deepest pockets and lower the incentive to increase bandwidth overall.

    Let's see, in a competition between packets going to boatdesign.net and say Facebook, who's got the deeper pockets to get their traffic a higher priority?

    I don't think you're considering some of the downsides here.

    PDW
     
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