Considering junk project

Hi all,

just found this forum and read through a few topics so please bear with me if some of this has been discussed over and over already!
I might be looking for a little boat building project of my own in near future. An idea that has been on my mind for quite some time now. Had a look at a lot of plans, bought almost every book available on the topic. However I do not have any experience whatsoever. Except for assembling IKEA stuff but I doubt that qualifies me as being very handy. No wonder my fiancée isn’t exactly convinced with what I’m planning.
At the moment I’m considering two designs, the first being Bolger’s ‘Advanced Sharpie’, second would be Forestier’s Jonque de Plaisance.

Frankly must say that I’m not 100% happy with Bolger’s AS39 (aka Loose Moose) though. Might be able to come to terms with the looks but what about seakindlyness? Took me a while to get behind her stability concept (no keel, interior ballast, shape), finally got it. But that excessive freebord looks like a lot of wind resistance. Common wisdom has it that if she looks like a dog she’ll also behave like one. Not a good point to start. There are other concerns with this design but what worries me most is, that Phil Bolger himself wrote Loose Moose might be capable of doing ocean crossings but it’s not an ideal boat for this purpose. He also admits pounding at anchor would be an issue.
So to cut a long story short I somehow get the feeling that Bolger boxes are more at home on the Great Lakes than on the Atlantic. Oh and did I mention the looks?
Would be incredibly easy to build though and kind of cheapish too.

Now as for Dimitri le Forestier’s, must say that I’ve absolutely fallen in love with the design. I want a junk rig, which ruled out quite a few designs. Bruce Roberts, Benford and others do offer plans but they’re mainly modified concepts as opposed to being specifically designed to take advantage of the rig. Not so with these Jonques de Plaisance. I guess his 40ft version might suit us well (cruising couple). Must say it’s a bit bigger than I originally had been looking for. What gives me the shivers however is: can I do it? Perhaps having (at least) the hull built professionally would be the best option.
They mention a manual for amateur builders and kit form on their website but since they haven’t wrote me back I haven’t got a clue how difficult to build they really are. Guess I’ll just have to wait and decide later.

Any input welcome!
Jack

 

more:http://boatbits.blogspot.com/2006/08/mutant-yellow-loose-moose-sighting.html





http://www.jonquedeplaisance.net/eng_index.html

 

Finally received a mail from Monsieur Le Forestier and his plans sure look promising. Still don't know about what the kit consists off and how detailed his manual is. He's a bit more expensive than other designers that I've had contact with, not that it matters much when compared to the entire cost of such a project, but any idea why?

Think Duma Tau is the man to talk to here, please get in touch!

Any thoughts on this would be very appreciated!

 

Dont forget to see the plans and books available from www.thomasecolvin.com

I love the chinese and south-east asian styles - have you read the reprint of Warrington' Smyth's book on the 'Friendly Pages' ?
http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/smyth/mast_n_sail_00.html

Are you set on a build-it-yourself? Have a look on www.botenbank.nl and see if you can find something relatively cheap that you could 'tidy-up'.

If it is just a 'historical vessel' you are after - wouldn't a Dutch Botter etc. be more appropriate and easy (for the north sea etc) to find, or build or sail?

 

Thank you Mark, methinks the dutch botter won't be suitable for extended offshore cruising. As for the leeboards: I'd rather go buy this one: http://tinyurl.com/y5pgeb. Now that's an interesting boat! Also had a look at Colvin's designs and others but wasn't happy with them. Forestier seems so much more like the real McCoy to me.

 

Well maybe a small Dutch Botter won't be suitable for off-shore cruising, but a Danish Galeas would be. Or why not a small Colin Archer - or one of the many Max Oertz or Rasmussen designs.

Do I sense a cultural cringe here - for local/traditional craft? (Ha! and I thought that was only something that Australians suffered from!).

Failing the rich North Sea cultural heritage, then, I would chose Tom Colvin. Many of the locals in Asia trade and fish using his designs. Granted some are very big boats. They would suit bumping-around in Asian harbours - taking the abuse (probably more than the designs of Monsieur Le Forestier?)

having said that Monsieur Le Forestier's designs are stunning.

Edited to add: I am also interested in boats and rigs Asian (like you) - do you also find it a bit frustrating the lack of solid information about what was really used? Some of the best information being only sketches - see below- or models in the British maritime museum. I get the feeling that the Chinese could have done a bit more to preserve their heritage (granted the problems with the Cultural Revolution and Mao).

 

Funny that you mention it, actually I've just been to London and studied their collection of junk models. Quite detailed they are: http://www.flickr.com/photos/67816918@N00/sets/72157594372244167/

But you're right that genuine information seems very hard to obtain!

 

uhmm, had hoped for a little more feedback...

Anyhow, seems I'll be building one of these next year!
Still haven't decided on the exact design but I guess the 40ft JDP will be the one.

 

Junkies are a bit thin on the ground, but there are plenty of closet ones. I flirted with junk designs years ago. Have you caught up with the Junk Rig Association yet? They have some pretty rabid members and good contacts. For example I sent a letter to the 'Fisheries Dept.' in Hong Kong for info on how the sails are lashed to the bamboo spars. Some old boy there sent back a packet of sketches of complete rigging and knots for a mast and sail.

By the way that French junk in the picture at top really looks the part!
Go for it mate.

 

Thanks Rayk, you're right bout the JRA. Joined earlier this year, very helpful chaps indeed! It takes a bit to source information about junks both traditional and 'modern' but I'm quite confident now. Bought LOTS of books, visited museums, spent many a night online (though the web was actually rather disappointing except for a handful of sites).

 

take a look at a San Francisco Pelican ,12'/16'/18' and larger versions. They are a combination of sanpan/ junk and banks dory, reputed to be fine small boats in the tough conditions of San Francisco Bay. sorry ,but i dont have the web address, but it is out there.

 

Cute little boats but the emphasis is on 'little'



Not exactly suitable for living aboard.
Looks life fun though, thanks for mentioning!

Jack

 

Good book for Junkies.

Just remembered The voyage of the Golden Lotus.

Top book about a young NZ guy getting a junk built in Hong Kong. 1960's.
Inspirational and very informative.

 

Sounds entertaining, just bought a copy.
Thanks for bringing that one to mind!

 

Just for the record department...

Phil Bolger designed Loose Moose 2 at our request and for our needs at the time. My wife and I sailed it around the Med explored the coast of Africa and sailed it to the Caribbean where we continued to sail and live aboard till it was sadly lost due to a lightning strike. Loose Moose 2 was a pretty exceptional boat.

Over the years we have noticed a lot of people who must have more sea time in the design than we do have written about various ills and design faults...None of them which we have had any experience with. One case in point is the slamming at anchor of the flat bottom...We by my reckoning spent something like over 2500 nights at anchor and not once did we experience slamming of the hull at anchor to a point that it was problematic.

One of the things we have noticed is that almost all of the changes to the newer version of Loose Moose 2 were all about fixing problems with the design that in fact were not a problem at all but simply an inexperienced builder/sailor listening to too many dock side wags making pronouncements about boats with flat bottoms and so on. So strong is that kind of word of mouth that in fact even the designer began to doubt his own work. None of the word of mouth being from anyone who actually sailed on the design...

The scow front was another non issue and the list goes on...By no means was Loose Moose 2 a perfect boat (none ever are...) but for a boat built within a six month time span on a bare bones budget it has done exceptionally well... and is still greatly missed!

If anyone is seriously interested in the design or voyaging in sharpies I'd be more than happy to answer questions...

Bob

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