Need help choosing an engine! Yanmar/Volvo Penta/Vetus?

Discussion in 'Diesel Engines' started by Edem, Apr 16, 2021.

?

Which engine manufacturer would you recommend?

  1. YANMAR

    3 vote(s)
    75.0%
  2. VOLVO PENTA

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. VETUS

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. Edem
    Joined: Apr 2021
    Posts: 15
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    Location: Russian

    Edem Junior Member

    Hello everyone and good weather!
    Together with friends we are building a Long Range Power catamaran
    The question of the choice of engines arose and here they realized that we did not have expertise in this matter and there was no place to get it.
    We are from Russia and we simply do not have a significant yacht and catamaran fleet, and there are no statistics on servicing stationary diesel outboard motors at all.
    After reading the forums and reviews, the understanding did not increase, but rather became very confused.
    I ask you to help and express your opinion about manufacturers and their products, personal experience and experience of contacting service centers, the complexity of repair and maintenance, exactingness to the quality of fuel, etc. That is, everything that can be useful!

    Engine manufacturers of interest to us in the engine model:
    YANMAR 4LV230 (Z) 169 kW / 230 mhp
    VOLVO PENTA D8 MH 154 kW 210 mhp
    VETUS VD6.210

    The opinion on the engines is also interesting:
    YANMAR 6LY2M-WST or 6LY400
    VOLVO PENTA D6-440 or D8-450

    Very interesting opinion about the VETUS do not know anything at all.

    I will be glad to your opinion.
    Yes, the region of exploitation is the tropical latitudes of the Indian Ocean.

    I hope for a lively discussion and a reasoned opinion!
    Regards
     
  2. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Hi Edem,

    Welcome to the forum.
    I'd go with the Yanmar....these engines are robust and built to last.
     
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  3. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Re Yanmars, I have seen quite a few of the smaller 4JH models in former charter yachts out here, and they all invariably reached 5,000 hours of operation with ease, and with only routine maintenance along the way.

    Although saying this, I think that f any engine is well maintained, then it should last a long time.
    All engines require very clean fuel. Some might be more difficult to work on than others re the routine maintenance aspects.
    One example - the 4JH engines (approx 56 hp) mentioned above do not have easily accessible salt water pumps - you are almost working blind when changing the impeller.
    In contrast, we have an old Volvo 2003 three cylinder diesel (29 hp) which has the cover plate for the impeller facing forward, and it has very easy access.

    Re your proposed area of operation in the Indian Ocean, how do the different engines compare for service centres, and parts availability?
    I presume that you are building the boat in Russia, rather than a location on the Indian ocean?
     
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  4. Edem
    Joined: Apr 2021
    Posts: 15
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    Location: Russian

    Edem Junior Member

    Hello Ad Hoc!

    Thank you, I myself am very glad that I found your forum!
    There is a lot of valuable information and people openly share their experience, this is very important and valuable!

    Regarding Yanmar, I often came across them on sailing boats, but never had any experience of personal operation!
    Thank you for your opinion!!
     
  5. Edem
    Joined: Apr 2021
    Posts: 15
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    Location: Russian

    Edem Junior Member

    Hello Bajansailor

    Yes, we are building a boat in Russia. We will operate in the Seychelles region. There are spare parts there, but we understand that everything that can break down from a serious one will have to wait, regardless of the manufacturer.

    You have brought up a very correct and important topic - the possibility of self-repair and its convenience!
    The examples you gave are very valuable, I will now pay attention to the availability of impellers, belts, rollers and everything that requires replacement and repairs are performed on the ship. Thank you!

    Already 2+ for the reliability of Yanmar
    1+ for the maintainability of the Volvo Penta
     
  6. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Edem, could you post info and / or photos of the catamaran as well please? I am sure that many folk on here would be interested in seeing what it is like.

    Note that my comments above were just in relation to the much smaller Yanmar and Volvo engines - on the larger Yanmars I am sure that the access to the impeller cover is better than on the smaller 4JH models.

    It sounds like you should take an extensive stock of supplies with you when you ship (or drive?) the boat to the Seychelles.
     
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  7. Edem
    Joined: Apr 2021
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    Location: Russian

    Edem Junior Member

    Bajansailor we are at a very early stage. Until mid-May, I will have the design in my hands, but now I need to decide which engines will be on the ship, since the volume of the fuel tanks directly depends on this (it is necessary to maintain the autonomy of the course at a distance of 2000 nautical miles).
    Yes, engines in Russia must be ordered in advance. Therefore, now I am actively studying the issue.

    I'm thinking of posting a thread on the forum with the history of catamaran construction (we will build from aluminum). If it is interesting, I will be happy to tell and share my experience and receive advice.
     
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  8. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    What speed are you planning on cruising at, to achieve a range of 2,000 miles?
    I would have thought that all of the above engines should have similar fuel economy at slower speeds?
    Although your selection above do have different power ratings -
    The Yanmar 6LY series are 400 - 440 hp :
    6LY-CR Series - YANMAR Marine International https://www.yanmar.com/marine/engines/6ly-cr-series/

    The Volvo D6 are also around 440 hp :
    D6 | Inboard Shaft Engine Range | Volvo Penta https://www.volvopenta.com/marine/products/inboard-shaft/inboard-shaft-engine-range/d6/

    While the smaller engines are around 230 hp -
    Yanmar 4LV -
    4LV230 (Z) - YANMAR Marine International https://www.yanmar.com/marine/product/engines/4lv230/

    Here is info on the Volvo D8 MH :
    D8 MH | Inboard Shaft Engine Range | Volvo Penta https://www.volvopenta.com/marine/products/inboard-shaft/inboard-shaft-engine-range/d8-mh/

    And the Vetus VD6.210 :
    210 HP VETUS VD6.210 boat engine - Engines - Engines and around the engines https://www.vetus.com/en/engines-and-around-the-engines/engines/deutz-common-rail-engine-15163.html

    Depending on what your required service speed is, you might find that the bigger engines are more efficient at a slower speed, compared to the smaller engines at a higher speed?

    Please do! I am sure that there will be a lot of interest shown on this Forum. We all love new construction threads. :)
     
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  9. kapnD
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    kapnD Senior Member

    “Depending on what your required service speed is, you might find that the bigger engines are more efficient at a slower speed, compared to the smaller engines at a higher speed?”

    Cummins, John Deere, and Caterpillar make slower turning, higher torque motors in the range you’re interested in.
    They make their redline at around 2800 rpms, roughly 1000 less than comparable horsepower Yanmar or Volvo products.
    I consider them better motors for cruising, because they clock fewer revolutions per minute while making more torque.
     
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  10. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Edem, KapnD makes a very good point above - are you able to purchase Caterpillar, John Deere and / or Cummins engines in Russia?
    If so, then I would agree that less revs / more torque would probably be 'better' (all else being equal) for long range cruising than the other engines mentioned above.
     
    Edem likes this.
  11. comfisherman
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Alaska

    comfisherman Senior Member

    Can I ask what criteria you use to select possible engines?

    You have engines ranging from 2.7 to 7.7 liters, from 2600 rpm to 3800. That's the car equivalent of comparing a fiat 500 to a military 5 ton truck....

    I make a living with diesel engines catching fish, my uncles make a living repairing diesels in the winter. So I'm around it a fair bit. I've only got personal experience with the Volvo d6, but know of a few d8s. The 6 is a smooth little engine, but it like so many modern engines has finicky fuel systems, and a water pump that needs a lot of attention. Compared to cummins and john deere its parts are absurdly expensive.

    In the 5-6 liter category the 5.9 cummins seems like a no brainer. Parts are globally made and distributed, multiple companies rebrand versions of marinized blocks. Kept in the 300 hp range they last forever, parts are easy to find, and it can be bought marinized in almost any configuration imaginable. It's no heavier than a d8, or less powerful than the 4 cylinder.
     
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  12. Edem
    Joined: Apr 2021
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    Location: Russian

    Edem Junior Member

    Bajansailor, we plan to move at a cruising speed of 12 knots + -2 knots, with a maximum speed of 18 knots + - 2 knots. We need some headroom to be able to maneuver in a rough sea.
    Our choice in terms of engine power was due to the availability of models in Russia, a limited budget and a complete lack of knowledge of the subject area. Now we have no illusions and understand that the engines are 200-250 hp. they are not suitable for us, since they have slightly different characteristics in Rated RPM of turnover, which we need.
    Thank you for your comment, we are now looking at low-speed engines paired with large propellers.

    We will definitely create a branch for the construction of a catamaran! :)
     
  13. Edem
    Joined: Apr 2021
    Posts: 15
    Likes: 3, Points: 3
    Location: Russian

    Edem Junior Member

    kapnD, thanks for the brands suggested, I will be exploring options with John Deere and Caterpilla. Cummins seems to be very interesting, since the production is localized in China and gives some advantages for us as citizens of Russia.

    Bajansailor is right, I cannot be sure that John Deere and Caterpillar engines are generally available for order in Russia.
    Cummins accurately supply.

    I am alarmed by Cummins, since I have not met with them and in Russia no one knows anything about them. There were single deliveries, but even those dealers who sell them have no information and have little understanding of the subject matter.
    Are there any disadvantages to these engines?
    The price for them is extremely interesting ... This is embarrassing, in comparison with analogues

    Very correct remark about cruise and Rated RPM + torque! We now need some kind of balance.
     
  14. Edem
    Joined: Apr 2021
    Posts: 15
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    Location: Russian

    Edem Junior Member

    Comfisherman, thanks for the Volvo info and general direction of thought!

    We choose the engine according to the criteria:
    - Reliability;
    - Unpretentiousness to the conditions and mode of operation;
    - Price;
    - Profitability;
    - Maintainability.

    Our goal is to reduce overall maintenance and fuel costs over a 5 and 10 year horizon. And minimize contacting with service centers. Since there is a big problem with them in the region of operation, it can be said that if there are serious problems with the engines, it is impossible to find a mechanic and they fly from other regions to carry out work (usually from Europe or the UAE).
    I will also take into account your remarks about the cost of spare parts, as well as about operation.

    We have completely moved away from the idea of engines with a high rated RPM and are now looking at engines + - 2300-2500 RPM or lower.

    What other advantages do you think Cummins has over VOLVO, SCANIA, YANMAR, IVECO? Please write more if you have experience or information about the shortcomings of these brands in the process of daily use.
    This information is very helpful!

    Thank you
     

  15. Edem
    Joined: Apr 2021
    Posts: 15
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    Location: Russian

    Edem Junior Member

    Dear friends, I realized that I did not give enough background information. This is because me did not fully own the issue and did not imagine how many criteria should be taken into account at all.
    Correcting myself :)

    We are building a catamaran with dimensions of 22 meters long and 7.5 meters wide. Displacement ~ 45,000 kg. We want large sizes, but there are bureaucratic difficulties associated with the size of small vessels in Russia, and everything goes to the fact that we will need to slightly shrink our length more by ~ 2 meters. The design allows us to do this without severe ship stabilityproblems.
    We want him to swim at a speed of 12 knots + - 2 knots with a maximum speed of 18 knots + - 2 knots.
    Engines: diesel
    Rotates the screw shaft
    Now, we have laid down the fuel reserve of 10,000 liters, but we can increase it, there is an opportunity for the design.
    The main thing is that there is enough fuel for a range of 2000+ nautical miles, and for this we need to understand what engines we are putting into the design.
    The supply of fresh water can be ignored, it is more than enough, and if necessary, we will be able to slightly increase the tanks with fresh water + start the watermaker.

    This is probably the most correct profile of our catamaran in order to conduct a more substantive dialogue.
     
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