Naval Architecture vs. Yacht Design

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by dishsail, Mar 23, 2003.

  1. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Well, CB. That explains it.

    Maybe this guy tangled with the wrong bureaucrat (who, himself, may have been mis-interpreting the rules).

    I was only using this incident to underscore a point. That we Americans are terrified of bureaucracies and often for good reason.

    Thanks for your explaination of the rule.

    Bob
     
  2. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Sorry, atahawaii, they are available, in spanish, at http://www.ingenierosnavales.com/coin/index2.asp, but only for COIN's members. If you are interested in something specific,send me a private message and I'll try to give to you some orientation.

    I don't know about other countries.
     
  3. hateka
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    Location: rotterdam, the netherlands

    hateka Junior Member

    A yacht designer needs the knowledge of a naval archtitect. It is a lot more than lines and shape. Think of hydroynamics, keel shapes, ruddershapes, reynolds figure, wave patterns, stability, but also strength, rigging, etc. I made the choice after study not to go in yachts, but to go into big commercial ships. I never regretted that, but my hart is still in sailing boats.
     
  4. Inquisitor
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    Location: North Carolina Mountains

    Inquisitor BIG ENGINES: Silos today... Barn Door tomorrow!

    A friend of mine in Australia was explaining to me a system by which he can (optionally) get the boat he designed himself and is currently building blessed by inspectors. We here in the US used to have a system similar to this for homebuilt aircraft some years ago… until people assumed that if the inspectors said it was OK then it would be safe. Well, the inspectors were qualified to say what was a sound practice… NOT… what was aerodynamically flyable. Planes are “a little” less forgiving about stability issues. People tend to die first time up.

    Anyway, here is his quote. I believe he said the fees for this service were about $2K AU.

    “Over here "built to survey/surveyed" means that a marine surveyor from the Dept of Transport inspects every stage of the construction for both quality and compliance to the approved plans.. which are overspec’d anyway. We use a code called the "Uniform Shipping Laws". You can download the whole thing from the web. www.nmsc.gov.au/uslcode_2htm …I think.”
     
  5. moba
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Maldives

    moba New Member

    Luxury Boat Design

    :idea: Hi Guys, can someone please help me with few tips for the design of a luxury cruiser (length 120ft). I want to build the most innovative cruiser in the Maldives for the least amount of money. Ask any investor, they will tell u, if u have all the money there is almost nothing u cant accomplish, but then the challenge is to do things economically...Thanks :)
     
  6. moba
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    moba New Member

    U can do it if u dont give up!!

    "I disagree somewhat with the last, though. A person can be a great building architect without having a degree in structural engineering. A structural engineer is consulted where required. Same for boats."

    I have no qualifications in structural or civil engineering, i am a designer/artist, my most recent project was US$30 million, to build a resort with 150 rooms, i was the chief project incharge, i designed and monitored the entire construction/development which took 3 years. No doubt I couldn’t have done without my efficient team. But the point is that without any structural or civil engineering knowledge I did not screw the project. There were times i even helped my engineers. You will not beleive if i said i still dont know even to draw a line in Auto Cad, but i can use Corel Draw! :D Now i plan to design & build a luxury boat with the most innovative features in the market(maldives). I hope this helps someone. Some of my projects :http://www.i2imedia.net/3da.php
     
  7. atahawaii
    Joined: Jun 2005
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    Location: Kaneohe, Hawaii

    atahawaii Naval Architect, P. E.

    You can start by clearly defining what you want with a set of Owner's Requirements. At the moment a Owner's Requirements list is available free at www.hawaii-marine.com/templates. Then you can start the design spiral process and call in the experts when you need them. One place the design spiral is explained at http://www.newavesys.com/spiral.htm. There are also usually legal requirements similar to the building code for land buildings which vary from country to country. Also insurance companies may require you to design in accordance with a classification societies requirements. There are also international agreements regarding pollution, rules of the road, etc which need to be incorporated into the vessel. :)
     
  8. moba
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Maldives

    moba New Member

    thanks

    Thanks, :) i will look into that. in our country, the Maldives we dont have too many regualtions, so its not as strict or regulated as in most developed countries. This is because we are still a growing nation ecnomically - population just 300,000. Although our tourism is very innovative, we have annually 600,000 tourists and its not cheap. today maldives is a leader in luxury tourim as some resorts are selling over 10,000 us dollars a night. some resorts have underwater restaurants, while another with an underwater spa. i feel our cruise market (luxury secrtor) is not much tapped by the investors. At present only one true luxury boat is in the market operated by the Four Seasons, its a 11-cabin, three-deck catamaran for limited 22 passengers selling for US$15,000 a day. Thats why i pan to design and build my boat with the little money i have.
     
  9. wdnboatbuilder
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    Location: Cape Coral Fl

    wdnboatbuilder Senior Member

    What about Washington County Community College in Eastport Me. Good School
     
  10. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

    perhaps a few smaller boats and keep the people around the islands
     

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  11. CyprusShark
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Europe

    CyprusShark Cyprus Shark

    I think naval architect learns to study within the specific limits, but the designer works what ever he/she imagine.. Designers starts from the imagine to the physical aspect, arhitect just opposite. It is my point of view and way to work at least...
     
  12. D'ARTOIS
    Joined: Nov 2004
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    Location: The Netherlands

    D'ARTOIS Senior Member

    A 120' boat is quite a commission. You have to import everything till tha last nail, that will not make your ship inexpensive.
    You may better buy an used Pilotvessel or the like; there are some around for about 400.000 - 500.000 euro's that may host 10-14 cabins and that can be transferred into a charteryacht.
    Those ships are quite seaworthy, and that you will need for the Indian Ocean, I believe there is one for sale in Holland.
     
  13. Eric Sponberg
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    I disagree. I think a naval architect has every bit as much mental freedom as the designer, or artist. In fact, it has long been stated that naval architecture is part art and part engineering. The naval architect has the enormous advantage to understand how to engineer and build the dreams that he has, whereas the designer usually does not have any engineering sense at all. He/she must depend on the assistance of the engineer to put the dream into reality.

    I suppose you can say that a good naval architect uses both sides of his brain--the technical side and the artistic side, whereas the designer uses only the artistic side. Boy, that is going to provoke an onslaught of criticism! Let me say at the outset that I do not mean to criticize or demean designers--they do very nice work. But at the same time, I think it is a mistake to characterize naval architects by saying that they "study within specific limits."

    Eric
     
  14. D'ARTOIS
    Joined: Nov 2004
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    Location: The Netherlands

    D'ARTOIS Senior Member

    It is as Eric says, It is not always a pleasure when an artist creates a profile of a boat, to prove this I can tell the following story:

    Damen Shipyards took a commission to build a boat of a specific length, beam and draft. It was stated and agreed on that nothing should changed regarding the draft. That was put clearly in the contract.

    They collected the first and 2nd installment of the payments, went to an "Artist"
    whose name I shall not mention even he is not anymore under us - and gave him the commission to design the boat, profile and all. That he did.
    They started to make the first technical drawings and then they found out that there was something definately wrong with with the concept of the commission.

    It was agreed with the customer that the yacht (about 80 meters LOA) was constructed on the site of the customer in steel.
    The farther they went the more became evident that this yacht could never been build with the concipiated draft that was provided by the "Artist".

    They came finally to our company for a 2nd opinion. There I discoverd at first glance that not only a mistake was made in the draft calculation but also that the engines that were ordered would not fit in the boat.

    I knew by heart the dimensions of the engines and the free space they require.

    So I told them this and I offered to re-design the boat.

    Then they confessed that they had already paid the designer in full and some 100.000 usd was down the drain. They were left with an "unbuildable" design and therefore a totally useless project.

    Therefore, the first thing you do when designing a boat is making a proper weight calculation to start with.
    The largest shipbuilding conglomerate in Holland lost incredible face by just forgetting the first rule in the book.

    end of story
     

  15. chandler
    Joined: Mar 2004
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    Location: U.s. Maine

    chandler Senior Member

    Eric,
    You're an engineer. Did that come with your degree in naval architecture?
    It goes back to the question, someone studying Westlawn or Macnaughton, will "graduate" as a designer. Can they really ever consider themselves "naval architects" ?
     
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