Naval Architecture Lite

Discussion in 'Education' started by bigbowen, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. bigbowen
    Joined: Apr 2011
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    bigbowen Junior Member

    I dont know if anyone can help with this,
    I live in the Uk, I studied Leisure Boat Design in college but for various reasons the course fell apart for me,
    What i would ultimately like to do is work designing small pleasure craft, dayboats, cruisers inland waterway sort of stuff, however my problem is that a Naval Arch course is long and IMO too much detail,
    Does anyone know if theres a sort of 'Naval Architecture Lite' course, maybe 1 or 2 years that covers the main elements of boat design.
    OR
    is the fundemental course releveant to all and basicly I would have to study the whole lot and use the bits I wanted?

    Any suggestions would be very gratefully recieved.
    Thank you in advance
     
  2. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

  3. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Do you want to get a job designing boats, or is boat design an avocation?

    Is your primary interest the appearance or the engineering?
     
  4. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

  5. bigbowen
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    bigbowen Junior Member

    Ive got a job designing on bigger work boats, on the back of the study I put in on the leisure boat design course and a CAD certificate, designing systems etc, what I would ideally like to do is design smaller leisure boats, the whole unit.

    Im puzzled as what you mean 'appearance or engineering' to my mind they go hand in hand, what hooks me with boats is the appearance, theres something 'sexy' if you will about the shape, but to get that you need the engineering to make it work. if you mean the Naval architecture side, then you can design boats without the full on intensive 4-5 year Naval Arch course can you not?
     
  6. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    "Design" is used in many different ways, ranging from asthetics and appearance to working out the technical details. So when someone asks about "design" they may be asking about different things.

    For example Coventry University School of Art and Design offers study of yacht design within their Transport Design program http://wwwm.coventry.ac.uk/csad/industrialdesign/Pages/Transport.aspx It is primarially about the appearance and secondarially about the human interface. My understanding is the technical content is rather minimal

    Southampton University's MEng Ship Science / Yacht and Small Craft includes several modules related to "design". http://www.southampton.ac.uk/engine...p_science_yacht_and_small_craft.page?#modules My guess is "design" is used by Southampton University Ship Science in the sense of synthesis of technical solutions, trade-offs and optimization, etc rather than asthetics.

    So those are two very different academic programs, both of which involve "design".
     
  7. DavidJ
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    DavidJ Senior Member

    For the small independent designers the appearance and the engineering do probably go hand in hand. But if you wanted to go get a job at a bigger established firm the design department and the engineering department usually employ people with completely different skill sets and educations.

    As to whether you CAN design a boat without a degree of course you can. Many very successful designers never had formal schooling. The harder part would be getting a job without a piece of paper. Or convincing somebody that they should hire you to design their boat instead of that other guy with the fancy education. There will be others who will ask if you SHOULD design a boat without a naval architecture education.

    What is it exactly that you feel you are lacking? You have CAD. You have boat knowledge. You have a job in a boat design firm. Are you just looking for a piece of paper to say you are qualified to work on pleasure craft or is there some aspects of design or engineering where you feel weak? Have you seen any job ads that interested you where you went sheesh I don't know how to do that!

    If you are already working in workboat design you should be able to go apply at a pleasure boat firm. I've worked in pleasure boat design and commercial ship design and most of the time the job is very similar. The end product might be different but the way we get to that is pretty much exactly the same.
     
  8. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Where/how were you studying "Leisure Boat Design"? Did the course fall apart for you because of the content of the course or for other reasons? What does your current job of "designing on bigger work boats" encompass? Do you have an engineering or other technical background?
     
  9. bigbowen
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    bigbowen Junior Member

    I studied leisure boat design as a 2 year full time course, the course fell apart for staff reason, I dont want to explain as I dont know the full details, i passed the first year but failed the second,(i firmly believe the course was pulled togetehr to get the funding, and was largely weakly out together, the main Naval Arch module though was very good) I didnt resit the second year because I had become demoralised, which yes, is my fault, but hindsight is a wanderful thing,
    My job at the moment like I say is largely designing systems, although obviously boat based, i could reasonably be designing systems in office blocks or houses, I would like to find out about courses because I would like a more firm grounding in 'basic' boat design, as in Hull form etc, at the same time I would like that piece of paper to back up A) my first course that fell apart B) my approx 2 years experience working and C) to show that I have the piece of paper to show I know what Im talking about
     
  10. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    If you are after something "simple" not too demanding of your time nor your mental ability, but giving you a general introduction into naval architecture, but no major formal qualifications, then this may be applicable for you:
    http://www.lloydsmaritimeacademy.com/event/naval-architecture-distance-learning

    I know nothing about this course other than what it shows on the website. A basic introduction into NA, nothing else.
     
  11. bigbowen
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    bigbowen Junior Member

    Thats very interesting thankyou very much, exactly the sort of level Im pitching for
     
  12. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Would be also interesting to find some courses 'Nuclear physics for dummies' and 'Amateur surgery' :)
     
  13. bigbowen
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    bigbowen Junior Member

    ??????

    I apologize if I dont come up to the standards of your esteemed self sir, Im sure I would be found wanting in many respects of boat design, I would hesitate and consider the matter long before I even thought of refering to myself as a Naval Architect,

    You obviously have not read my post fully,you have missed the fact that I studied boat design for a little while, I know, even without the aid of a piece of paper to prove that I know, that any tom dick or harry can sit down and design himself a boat, with the aid of a piece of paper and one or two reference books, he may even make himself a reasonable living, but the Beneataus and the Damen yards may laugh at him if he asked them for a job,

    I am not asking to design world class boats, All I am asking for is a good basic grounding, to improve my ability a little,
    You, yes even you started somewhere, you may have grown up around boats and the osmosis was a natural progression, however I did not, If you find it so easy to sneer at the layman trying to better himself a little, then I hope your business goes bust,
     
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  14. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Nothing about You, but 'Lloyd's Academy Naval Architcture certificate' (taught online) and Westlawn (no naval architects with degree involved in teaching, and also by correspondence) are exactly what I said.
     

  15. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    The Lloyd's Academy Naval Architecture Certificate program and Westlawn appear to me to be somewhat different.

    The Lloyd's Academy Naval Architecture Certificate program is only 14 weeks in duration and appears to me to be aimed at individuals working in the maritime industry who need or want to have a better understanding of what naval architecture is and what naval architects do. From the website:
    Naval architects will clearly need an in-depth understanding of these principles; but there are many in supporting or aligned maritime roles who need a good general grasp of the basics of ship design and production. Marine engineers and surveyors, for example, require a solid appreciation of the fundamentals of naval architecture in order to optimise their professional activities and opportunities.​
    The focus is on ships, not boats, and I don't see any suggestion on the website or other materials that the course provides sufficient information to design a vessel. The choice to call the certificate awarded on completion a "Certificate in Naval Architecture" is unfortunate because someone not familar with the program might assume the certificate implies competence in naval architecture, not some level of general familarity.

    Westlawn Institute's program is explicited advertised as producing skilled boat and yacht designers, and as as typically taking over four years to complete. It should be noted that Westlawn generally avoids the use of the term "naval architect" and in their FAQ section say:
    As Westlawn graduates usually are employed within the boating or small-craft industry, they are known as yacht designers, boat designers, or small-craft designers. While naval architect generally implies large vessels, yacht designer or small-craft designer is more appropriate in describing the usual work of the Westlawn graduate. (Small craft are vessels under 200 feet or 60 meters).​
    Based on what I've seen of the Westlawn course material I would not consider it to be equivalent to a univeristy degree program in naval architecture.
     
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