nautical miles on new French SV's.

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by rclouise, Oct 10, 2010.

  1. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    RCLouise I'm very happy of your good news.

    The boat is being built at Minihy Treguier. I had a holiday house at Ile Grande, not very far. I've navigated many times in these waters...I do miss Brittany, north and south at La Trinité. Cancun's climate is good for my rheumatisms, but the sea is for beach tourists and spring breakers; no tides, no smell of the algae, juste white sand and turquoise sea...
    The internet site of Boreal has many good pics:
    http://www.voiliers-boreal.com/index.php?lang=en

    Some pics show details of building and also the great advantage of the "deriveur leste". Beaching...
     
  2. rclouise
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    rclouise Junior Member

    Ilan,
    I really enjoyed Treguier when I was there last March. I had perfect sunny weather the whole time I was there. After going on sea trials on the Boreal companies boat I must admit that I will be very nervous when my wife and I pickup the boat. We will spend time in Treguier while we get sea trials done and everything in ship shape order to move on. The Brittany coast is very intimidating to me even in good weather, those big tides and reefs everywhere have you on your toes all the time. Tracy and I will be back in September of this year for an inspection of the work being done. I'm hoping Boreal still has the old beater of a car with chart plotter on the dash for us to use. The coast is so beautiful it will be a pleasure to visit on business and as a tourist.
     
  3. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    Treguier is a very beautiful place, the old city is very "provincial" in the good meaning of the word.
    Yes the coast is very intimidating, imagine it in winter with a thick fog... good navigation mandatory. Before the times of GPS, keeping a good estimation of the position was an art between the height of the sea above the rocks at a precise moment of the tide, the -strong- currents and the ever changing wind...but it's a piece of cake compared to the Mer d'Iroise and the the Sein Island reefs where to the tide, currents and wind it's added a strong sea. I've seen 40 feet waves at la Teignouse and it was a just a nice windy day...
    After that and the North Sea (Norway is pretty hard also) you're ready for any kind of sea and weather. The Atlantic crossing by the south way (Canaria etc) becomes almost boring...
    You'll be very happy with your Boreal. Outstanding conception, excellent building like the work of most of the small shipyards of Brittany that is a place of true seamen.
    The shipyard workers have a very strong pride of their work, so quality is a first concern. The boats, fishing boats and yachts, must be made for hard conditions. For example, the Sein Island's fishermen stop fishing the sea bass on their 28 feet in the middle of the reefs only when the sea state is above 6 or 7 and the waves over 12 to 15 feet...so the boats must be reliable and strong.
     
  4. neelie
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    neelie Junior Member

    Very informative thread. Thanks all.

    rclouise: Congratulations a wonderful boat!!

    How do Boreal handle their chain locker? Does it drain into the main bilge?

    Or is it a hard plastic box separate from the main bilge, with its own little bilge pump?
     
  5. rclouise
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    rclouise Junior Member

    Yes the chain locker does drain into the main bilge. It is something that will need a good watch over. Key will be to keep chain washed down from the bow.
     
  6. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    Joyeuses Pâques (Happy Eastern) RCLouise, have you good news of the construction of the Boreal?
     
  7. rclouise
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    rclouise Junior Member

    Ilan, Happy Easter to you.

    Yes everything is moving to a steady beat. The boiler plates are on the hull. Deck and cabin top are made and placed right beside the hull. As for me it is a long slow process to think new boat. Every thing I think as far as solutions go I think like it is a used boat and that does not work here. I'm used to tearing into old things to make them better and to work. But with a new boat everything has not been built yet and one must visualize something that is now nothing and make it into something new. Example: The dog house is water tight and there was no way to let air move as we want for the heavy tropics. I thought of making a screen door out of wood that folds in half on a piano hinge and the door can be stowed away. That's what I would have done on a boat already built and old. But on the new boat why not just design the door with a new hatch built in with the hinge on the bottom side so the hatch can be opened and dropped down against the door and secured. Hatches have screens and our problem is solved just cut the aluminum door to take the hatch. Thank god for those who work and design new boats, without them I would have a funky looking mess.
    Hope all is well in Cancun.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  8. Luc Vernet
    Joined: May 2004
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    Luc Vernet Senior N.A.

    Hello Steve and Tracy,
    Reading through this thread was a delight, real life and cruising considerations, far away from the necessary but boring number-crunchers that post in other places! Thank you to all who participated, specially "Ilan voyager" (est-ce qu'on se connait? comment t'appelles tu?)
    I wish you to have a superb good time with you new boat. Good choice!
    Luc
     
  9. NovakT
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    NovakT New Member

    Hi Steve and Tracy
    Have long ago decided on the Boreal, but wanting a little more room for the toys and family, I have held out for the 50, keeping me at work. Would love to hear more about your progress to date. Looking to be in the US December and may find time to get to Treguier.
    Thank You
    Novak.
     
  10. rclouise
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    rclouise Junior Member

    Hi NovakT,
    I think from your post you have signed the contract for the 50 foot Boreal. If you have not been to the beautiful town of Treguier yet you must go. Just to watch the shipwrights at Boreal and to meet the two Jean-Francois's.

    We went in September for a great visit and to see how our boat was coming along. RC LOUISE is about half way completed and we will do sea trials in June. Life is good we are happy and now all the hard work for us in ordering all the new gear and spare parts.

    Your welcome to PM us anytime. If your in our part of the country, 'Oregon' in December let us know.

    Cheers
    Steve and Tracy
     
  11. FAST FRED
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    FAST is great fun , but can it recover from a mast in the water knock down?
     
  12. rclouise
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    rclouise Junior Member

    Hi Fred,

    Well we hope so! I'm not a naval designer of boats so I can not give you any amazing math on stability or being able to recover from a knock down. But.

    This design of boat has been around now for a long time, over 20 years and so far I do not know of one being knocked down. Jimmy Cornell sails his Ovni to some of the most dangerous seas in the world and only has good things to say how the boat handles. Juan Sa Bulan, the first Boreal 44 built just arrived in the Canaries yesterday from France sailing through some of the worst weather one would want to go through with no problems.

    The Boreal should not broach easily as she is a centerboard design and should slide if caught sideways on a breaking wave. If for some reason like a pitch pole accident she has almost 5000 kilos in her keel. I realize that this weight is not extended out on a traditional keel but in the one meter depth of the keel. I figure as an experienced sailor if we did get knocked down it has to be pretty big seas and to me that means those same big seas are gonna right side us pretty fast.

    If the day comes we have large breaking seas and 50 plus knots of wind we probably will be sailing close to bare poll and running a drouge on the run. That has the way I have been doing it for 40 years. We have a lot of sea trials to do before we head off on major passages, practice heaving to and everything else you can imagine that one should do when learning about a whole new design for us.

    With all the experience on this website I'm sure there should be some great conversation on this issue.

    Cheers
     
  13. Luc Vernet
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    Luc Vernet Senior N.A.

    Hello Steve and Tracy,

    This "knock down" fear consideration exist for every single boat, would it be a lifeboat which has 360 deg positive stability....but is still facing the danger of a broken window or a torn away watertight door! There is simply no absolute safety at sea....and even when resting in harbor!

    However, as you say, this "kind of boat" has existed for long time, not only with the Ovni's and other Boreal (congratulation for your choice), but many other high profile Naval Architects have been successfully working on such extreme shoal draft boats.

    May I cite just two of them:

    One is the "Meridien" designed by Andre Mauric http://mauric.classic-yachting.com/realisation/dossier_meridien/meridien.jpg , a "keel-less" sloop that has been sailing extensively. She has all her ballast in the bottom f the hull.

    Another one is the CNC 51, designed by Sparkman ad Stephens, and in the concept of which I had the honor to participate (see my signature on drawing): http://1.bp.blogspot.com/---0P3wIuclI/Td1OKOPh9LI/AAAAAAAAHCw/SYPgUz-yuAY/s1600/2392-C1.jpg. This boat, now aptly named "Restless of Auckland" has been sailing extensively, and you can still today follow her blog: http://blog.mailasail.com/restless. This boat, however, is of a different concept since she actually has a lifting keel carrying all the ballast, like the old Carter designed racer Noryema IV (if my memory does not fail me), or the Joubert- Nivelt designed deep sea cruisers "Damien II". Still this boat (CNC 51/ Restless of Auckland) is able to navigate very safely with the keel nearly all up, keeping little in the water, and has the keel fully down only when beating to windward.

    AFAIK: No problem reported so far!
     
  14. rclouise
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    rclouise Junior Member

    Luc, thank you for your comments.

    The "Knock Down Fear" consideration exists for every boat is so true. I'm not a NA, I'm a sailor and somewhere along the line I put my trust in the designer by my experience and I think more importantly my instincts of many hours on the sea. Every boat has the ability to be knocked down no matter what the math is. I know of many boats that have all the math in their favor that have been knocked down. We as sailors on oceans with infinite situations can produce results that none of us want. That is why sailors must choose a design that suits their goals and then learn the many compromises that will exist.

    We were first interested in Boreal to build our new boat because it fit our needs as sailors and passage makers to go places we have never been able to. Our desire is a bit different than many Boreal owners as owners of high lat boats. We love the South and deep Western Pacific with its many atolls and jungle rivers to explore. But that alone did not sell us on the Boreal until our visits to France and long conversations with designer, Jean Francois Delvoye. This is where trust in a designer comes in and we have many hours sitting in the Boreal office and walking the shop exploring our conversations on what makes a boat work not only as designer to sailor but Jean-Francois as sailor talking to a sailor.

    We realize in our old ways of thinking having owned nothing but more traditional boats like the Mason 44 all our lives that we will have much to learn about the Boreal. But with our experience and our instincts we look forward to learning about our new foundation that eventually will be so much apart of us.

    Thank you for the link to the S&S CNC 51. I am a great fan of Stevens and of Philip Rhodes, both who were way ahead of their time designing centerboard boats that could sail in all the oceans of the world.
     

  15. NovakT
    Joined: Nov 2012
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    NovakT New Member

    Hi Steve
    Just back from quick trip to NZ.
    Thanks for your reply I would love to give you a call when in the States after christmas if that is OK.
    Cheers Novak.
     
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