Narrow offshore sailboats: cheaper alternative to Hallberg Rassy 37?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Puma, Sep 19, 2021.

  1. Puma
    Joined: May 2018
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    Location: Oviedo, Spain

    Puma Junior Member

    Hello to everybody - quick introduction

    I am a cruiser and the owner of an old IOR 34´sailboat that had 2 refits and is in top shape, however I can see how better hull lines could make it quicker (the mast position limits this being further aft) by adding waterline in the bow and aft. I now have a ton of experience with fibreglass and I know two gents who have built their 30´ sailboats from scratch, I also would have my own space to work.

    This boat would only sell for 25-30k, and I don´t have the 200k for a H Rassy 37 but I´m searching for something similar.

    Why the Rassy 37?

    This is a slender hull without being flat at the lower sections like the racing boats. Waterline is 10.20m (almost 34 ft) while the beam is only 3.55m (less than 12 ft). This has to be comfortable in a chop.

    I don´t mind the accommodation, center cockpit and teak that much, I´d actually rather have an aft cockpit and no teak.

    But most sailboats who are 10.20 at the static waterline are 3.80-4.0m (13ft) at the beam (for example the Sun Legende 41 designed by Doug Peterson), or flat at the wet parts (Bavaria Match series, and most racing boats). So they pound a lot more and being wide you need a lot more sail which increases efforts at play.

    Take for example the Rassy 37

    Mainsail around 32 m2
    100% Jib around 31 m2, so genoa around 37 m2
    Weight around 8 tons, ballast 3.2 tons

    this size is still easy to singlehand with a traditional mainsail, without bow thrusters, electric winches, and I could still use an asymetric spynakker.

    upload_2021-9-20_0-50-12.jpeg



    I´ve thought about

    Sun Fast 36
    Dehler 37 CWS

    I could build a skeg for the rudder for offshore work however their hull sections are a LOT more flat, and the ballast a lot lower.

    Are there any modern alternatives that are not beamy or flat?

    Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance!
     
  2. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
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    philSweet Senior Member

    Oyster 37 Heritage.

    Pacific Seacraft 37.

    Bavaria 37. Maybe a bit fatter than what you wanted, but well executed none the less.

    Prices may not be much better than for the H R, but it ups the inventory level quite a bit.
     
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  3. Dolfiman
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    The Feeling 1090 (L 11 m x B 3,6 m, Harlé-Mortain design, 350 were built from 1987 to 1995 by Kirié), one can be seen at Lisbon (Portugal) and proposed at 32 000 Euros :
    Feeling 1090 en Lisbonne | Voiliers d'occasion 49655 - iNautia
    Feeling 1090 : une valeur sûre signée Harlé ! - Voile & Moteur (voileetmoteur.com)
    Feeling 1090, voilier de référence. Présentation (mersetbateaux.com)
    Grand Soleil 39 (1986, L 12 m) can be also interesting, here proposed at 37 500 Euros.
    Grand Soleil 39' en Italie | Voiliers de croisière d'occasion 51509 - iNautia
     
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  4. pironiero
    Joined: Apr 2020
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    pironiero Senior Member

    swede 55
    McNuggets 65(this one is a joke)
     
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  5. skyking1
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    skyking1 Junior Member

  6. Puma
    Joined: May 2018
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    Puma Junior Member

    Comparing total beam here (for lack of waterline beam) to static waterline length (source sailboatdata)

    Rassy 37 ............................... 3.55 m x 10.20 m

    The Feeling 1090 ......................... 3.60 m x 8.80 m

    Pacific Seacraft ........................... 3.30 m x 8.38 m

    Bavaria 37 ............................. 3.66m x 8.96 m

    That Oyster 37 heritage .................. 3.66 m x 9.53 m

    Grand Soleil 39 (Jezequel) ................... 3.76 m x 9.85 m


    If you work their proportions out keeping the same B-L ratio, if the last two had a 3.55 m beam the static waterline would still be around ONE meter less than the rassy 37.

    That´s a lot in speed, sailing efforts, pounding.


    That Swede 55 is a killer in marina rates

    According to what I have red the Omega 42 (similar) is not up to offshore use here in the bay of Biscay, it was only meant for the baltic sea.
     
  7. skyking1
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    skyking1 Junior Member

    It got as far as Rhode Island so there's that. it is a lot moor and that's why I put that in there. :)
     
  8. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

  9. Puma
    Joined: May 2018
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    Puma Junior Member

    ^ Very interesting Dolfiman.

    For boats in the 36 to 43 ft range (which is a big range), unfortunately there doesn´t seem to be much more choice than a fat boat.

    Some older offshore boats will be slender/narrow but very short at the waterline compared to the beam, nothing like the Rassy 37.
     
  10. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    This ULDB 50 is probably a Santa Cruz 50, as the length and the beam correspond :
    Only 28 were built and it is very rare that to see one in European waters. The Naval Architect is the californian Bill Lee well known for developing such ULDB concept from early 70's with success in the Transpac race, Santa Cruz is itself the name of a local yacht club : SCYC History | The Santa Cruz Yacht Club
    "The 1970s saw Santa Cruz and the yacht club come to the forefront of the Ultra Light Displacement Boat (ULDB) movement that revolutionized yacht racing. In 1977 Bill Lee’s “Merlin” shattered the Trans Pacific Race record and Santa Cruz ULDBs of all sizes became the boats to beat. Merlin’s record stood for 20 years."
    A 40' version was also proposed, a shorter version but with the same beam, 15 were built :
    Another architect of reference for "narrrow" sailboats is Knud Reimers. The Swede 55 was already mentioned by Pironiero here above, I have not mentioned the popular S30 , 12,5 m x 2,50 m, because the beam of course leads to less accommodation volume your objective B 3,6m , but it is still an excellent representative of the narrow sailboat option :
    SailboatData.com - S 30 (REIMERS) Sailboat
    Fisksatra Varv S 30 - Sandeman Yacht Company
    The Swede 55 itself can be considered as his masterpiece :
    Swede 55 | SWEDESAIL

    These ULDB (or at least narrow light) boats are in my opinion underrated for their capacity to be a good option for shorthanded ocean crossing, they can offer easy speed with smaller sails areas and at a lower cost (except in the marinas where taxes are at prorata of the length only !)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2021
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  11. Puma
    Joined: May 2018
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    Location: Oviedo, Spain

    Puma Junior Member

    I agree. I like the concepts of Steve Dashew. Personally think that a 12 m sailboat with a 3.5 m beam is just perfect.
    A beam of 2.5 m may be a bit too far.

    Some older boats who are closer to the Rassy 37 in design just have too much of those overhangs reducing their potential waterline. Take the Malö 38 for instance.

    Removing a bit of those overhangs at the bow and the aft, and off you go. You have to be careful to not change the boat trim by ading much more volume at the bow than the aft. But it´s possible I´m sure. And you won´t pay any more at the marinas, total hull length can stay the same. But of course this is major surgery.
     
  12. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

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  13. wet feet
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    wet feet Senior Member

    [​IMG]
    The Aphrodite 101 might appeal if a slightly Spartan way of life is acceptable.
     
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