My objections to Zero's new Health care plan.

This is not a health care plan, it is a plan for advancing socialism.

The only reason it's marketed as a health care plan is because, for now, they still need your vote on some things.

Obama has said that he intends to change this country. He said that he intends to build domestic civilian military funded as well as our regular military. This will be a Gestapo, people. It is illegal to use the military against U.S. citizens. That's why he needs a Gestapo. Rahm Emmanuel has talked about compulsory service and indoctrination for every 18 to 25 yr old in this country.

Obama won't let us see his thesis from Columbia Univ. Why do you think that is? Frank Marshall Davis is his hero. Davis is a socialist who advocates crashing the economy of the country to make socialism seem more attractive.

Wade Rathke of ACORN promotes "Maximum Eligible Participation" (MEP) in welfare for the purpose of overwhelming the system to bring about socialism. Obama said community organizers like ACORN would be invited to help shape his agenda for the future of this country.

Glenn Beck's "The One Thing" commentary from 7/28 shows video clips of each one of them saying these things. We're not making them up, they really said them.

So remember when you vote, you're not voting for healthcare, you're voting for socialism. People like me who believe in the constitution will have to be "Dealt With". That's the purpose of the 'internal military" force he's talking about. None of this can happen smoothly. It has to get BAD before their plan can work. Their plan is to grind this country into the dirt an then build it back in their image. An image that has always failed and oppressed its people, and has required the killing of those who would not go along.

If you are a socialist and are truly for these things, then stand up and say so.

If you're not, then pull your head out of your butt and realize what it is you are voting for. Politicians, especially the left, trade my money for your vote to gain personal political power. That is corruption. And you go along with it. Nothing is free.....NOTHING.....that is a trick used to market something to someone who is a thief at heart.

Your vote has power and value, why do you trade it for beads and feathers? You make yourself a ***** and destroy our once powerful nation. For what? So you don't have to be a better person? So you can cease to grow and be responsible for yourself and improve your world and actually engage in charity to help your neighbors? No, you just use your vote to make "The Rich" do it. Some of those rich people give more to charity in a year than you make in your lifetime. Hell of a reason to "Stick it to 'em", isn't it?

You don't even understand your own motivations, do you?

You'll trade your vote for a free trip to a postal worker in a doctor's coat.

That's why so many of our founding fathers argued that not everyone should be allowed to vote. There ought to be criteria met before voting rights are extended. I would add to that that anyone receiving welfare, food stamps, public housing assistance, etc. should not be allowed to vote for a period of two years after they get off public assistance. Voting for money for yourself has always and will always kill democracies.

Vote responsibly.

Lance.

 

What’s Not to Like?
Reform? Why do we need health-care reform? Everything is just fine the way it is.
By Jonathan Alter | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Jul 31, 2009
Go ahead, shoot me. I like the status quo on health care in the United States. I've got health insurance and I don't give a damn about the 47 million suckers who don't. Obama and Congress must be stopped. No bill! I'm better off the way things are.
I'm with that woman who wrote the president complaining about "socialized medicine" and added: "Now keep your hands off my Medicare." That's the spirit!
Why should I be entitled to the same insurance that members of Congress get? Blue Dogs need a lot of medical attention to treat their blueness. I'm just a regular guy and definitely deserve less.
I had cancer a few years ago. I like the fact that if I lose my job, I won't be able to get any insurance because of my illness. It reminds me of my homeowners' insurance, which gets canceled after a break-in. I like the choice I'd face if, God forbid, the cancer recurs—sell my house to pay for the hundreds of thousands of dollars in treatment, or die. That's what you call a "post-existing condition."
I like the absence of catastrophic insurance today. It meant that my health-insurance plan (one of the better ones, by the way) only covered about 75 percent of the cost of my cutting-edge treatment. That's as it should be—face cancer and shell out huge amounts of money at the same time. Nice.
I like the "lifetime limits" that many policies have today. Missed the fine print on that one, did you? It means that after you exceed a certain amount of reimbursement, you don't get anything more from the insurance company. That's fair.
Speaking of fair, it seems fair to me that cost-cutting bureaucrats at the insurance companies—not doctors—decide what's reimbursable. After all, the insurance companies know best.
Yes, the insurance company status quo rocks. I learned recently about something called the "loading fees" of insurance companies. That's how much of every health-care dollar gets spent by insurance companies on things other than the medical care—paperwork, marketing, profits, etc. According to a University of Minnesota study, up to 47 percent of all the money going into the health-insurance system is consumed in "loading fees." Even good insurance companies spend close to 30 percent on nonmedical stuff. Sweet.
The good news is that the $8,000 a year per family that Americans pay for their employer-based health insurance is heading up! According to the Council of Economic Advisers, it will hit $25,000 per family by 2025. The sourpusses who want health-care reform say that's "unsustainable." Au contraire.
And how could the supporters of these reform bills believe in anything as stupid as a "public option"? Do they really believe that the health-insurance cartel deserves a little competition to keep them honest? Back in the day, they had a word for competition. A bad word. They called it capitalism. FedEx versus the U.S. Postal Service, CNN versus PBS—just because it's government-backed doesn't mean you can't compete against it. If they believed in capitalism, the insurance companies would join the fray and compete.
I'm glad they don't. I prefer the status quo, where the for-profit insurance companies suck at the teat of the federal government. Corporate welfare's what we've got, and it's a damn good system. Through a wonderful program called Medicare Advantage, the insurance companies receive hundreds of billions of dollars in fees to administer a program that the government is already running. Don't touch that baby. You'd be messing with the handiwork of some fine lobbyists.
You know what part of the status quo I like best? It's a longstanding system for paying doctors called "fee for service." That's where doctors get paid for each procedure they perform, as if my auto dealer got paid separately for the steering wheel, brakes, and horn instead of for the car. Fee-for-service is why the medical care at that doc-in-a-box at my mall is so superior to the Mayo Clinic or Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, where the doctors are on salary. Who would want to mess with that?
OK, if you really press me, I'm for one change. It's the one that Republicans trot out to prove they're "reformers," too. We could save our whole system if we just capped malpractice awards. Two of our biggest states—California and Texas—did it a few years ago and nothing has changed there, but who cares? It sounds good.
So tell your congressmen and senators when they're home for the summer recess that it's too soon to address this issue. We've only been debating it for 97 years, since Theodore Roosevelt put national health insurance in the Bull Moose Party platform of 1912. We've only had 745 congressional hearings on the subject (I made that number up, but it's got to be close). That's not enough! Let's study this problem more before we do anything about it.
Did I say "problem"? Who said there was a problem? Not me. I like the status quo.

 

If you can't pay for it, you can't have it. Unless you have a benefactor, getting something you don't pay for is stealing, wardd. Why, why is that so hard to understand?

Address issues in health care and fix them if you don't like them, but don't steal from me to do it. I don't have a lot of the things I want so my wife and I can have health insurance for our kids. If you want it, work for it.

Nice c&p, by the way. I'm sure it took a lot of thought and a whole sack-full to do that.

JFK used to be a Dem. hero: "Ask not what your country can do for you....."

He's to the right of most of our RINO's today.

Giving power to socialists is not the answer. More govt. waste and fraud isn't either. If you'd like to advance a viable alternative, I'll back you. Do more of what you've been doing and I'll continue to fight you and mock you.

Lance.

 

so when you reach your lifetime limit you die or your wife die?

or you lose you insurance and cant get any?

wouldn't it be nice to have that terrible public option to buy into?

and when you turn 65 be sure you dont get that socialist medicare

of course at that age you probably wont be able to afford private insurance but no matter

why are some so affraid of the government offering an option to private insurance sense its bound to fail anyway

its an option , buy into it if you want if not dont

the va, Medicare and military are some of the best and most efficient health systems around, if it wasnt for the gov subsidizing the insurance company's the elderly couldnt get private insurance and that subsidy along with medicare costs us more than straight Medicare, someone explain the logic of that to me

and its cheaper for those without insurance to show up at the er?

difine stealing, is having the fire dept put out fires stealing or calling the cops when you need them stealing?

some of us think health care should be a right and not a privlidge of those that can afford it

just a little thought experiment, someone comes up with a drug that can keep you alive for as long as you can afford it, wanna live hundreds of years just pay for it, can no longer pay then die

how long before you'd change your tune and say life was a right and not a privilege of wealth?

 

I'll start in the middle. The VA, Medicare, and Military hospitals. I won't sugar-coat it. That is a god-damned lie and you probably know it.

My dad, my wife, her dad, her mother, my boss, several friends and lots of acquaintances have run into problems with VA and military hospitals and had to go pay out of their own pockets if they wanted help for certain problems.

Your example of a fire-dept is ridiculous. Being on the local fire dept, (volunteer) I can tell you that we don't have a bunch of freeloaders voting for a free fire dept just so they can set a fire when they want and not have to pay for it. Police, fire dept's, military....That's the purpose of govt. Schools are a perfect example of govt control. I've lived in places where I had to send my kids to private schools, and they cost less per kid than public school and we had more say-so in what went on because they knew we could take our money down the road. Vouchers! Empower the taxpayer!

Are you so naive that you think a bunch of socialists believe in the sanctity of life? The options of the elderly and premature children will be severely limited in a govt controlled system. You don't have to believe me, it's in the proposed bill. There are also a bunch of "Off Budget" items. Things that the CBO is not allowed to count. That'll make sure our budget can never be balanced and nobody will know how that money is being spent. Even a lot of Dems are scratching their heads and saying "Wait a minute!"

As for "that socialist medicare", I have already promised my children that I will never be on Medicare, or take one cent in Social Security payments, or any other socialist vote-buying scam. Dems rammed welfare down our throats by tying it to the farm bill. They bought the votes of the elderly by giving them SSI and medicare. Otherwise, these socially conservative groups would never have aligned themselves with the Hollywood types, hippies, and faggots. They sold their souls (and my kids' future) for money. May God have mercy on their souls.

I don't care what made-up rights you claim for yourselves. We have a bill of rights. If you want to know what your rights are, get somebody to read the thing to you.

Here's a shocker: "You're not going to live forever". No matter how much money you spend. No matter how hard you try to stay healthy. You are still going to die. If you work hard and smart and manage your IRA properly, you can spend millions trying for a few extra years if you want. Or you can have peace when the time comes knowing you've left that money to your children and grandchildren or to groups dedicated to helping people who need it. SSI doesn't allow that and neither does any socialist country.

Our congress should not be allowed to make laws we can't live by while enjoying wealth and privileges we don't have. Congress's salaries should be no higher than the national average, and they should have whatever health care they can afford on that salary. And no (NO, absolutely NO) taxpayer-payed pension. They are supposed to be public servants, for crying out loud. Why don't you use your vote, your precious privilege of a vote, to help us pass term limits, to vote the likes of Ted, Barney, Nancy, SJL, and Barbara out of office, and vote in people who will start rolling socialism back.

People live on their butts eating crap and playing video games even when healthcare is expensive. It'll be worse when it's free. I keep saying this: "Actions have consequences". How will you grow good citizens if you remove all the consequences?

You said it's cheaper for those without insurance to show up at the ER. That's because they are stealing services, and that cost is passed on to us. One of the main reasons health care is so expensive is because of emergency room fraud. I work with a lot of real low-life types, an I hear EVERY DAY how they have scammed one govt program or another. They need to see a doctor for stitches they got in a bar fight, so they go to the emergency room and throw the bill away as they walk out. A week later, they go back to the emergency room to get the stitches taken out because they'd have to pay if they just went to the doctor or to a quack-in-the-box type med-clinic. They wad that bill up and drop it on the floor before walking out of the ER.

These bums drink a 30 pack of beer after work, steal stuff all over town, use and sell drugs, seldom go a week without missing a day or two of work, reproduce indiscriminately, and have no desire to better themselves. If they could, they would gladly trade an eye or a leg for a lifetime of disability payments. Every damn one of them voted for Obama because they think he is going to give them something for free. These are the people you want me to pay for health care benefits for? No f-ing way!

What we need is a triage foyer in outside our emergency rooms. A troup of triage nurses saying "Nope, not an emergency, move along" , would save billions or trillions over the course of a few years. and free up ER's to help those who are really hurt. I've had to walk out of an ER and got faster service at a midnight med clinic because the ER was full of illegals with "Anchor Babies" with runny noses. I didn't see one person in there who was as injured as I was and I was told it would be about 5hrs to see a Dr.

I had friends with high-powered insurance growing up. They had no fear of risky activities because they had someone else to pay for their screw-ups. I didn't rodeo, race moto-cross, drink and party, etc. like they did, because I knew it was going to come right out of household funds and affect our disposable income if I did. I wouldn't be as careful as I am if somebody else was paying my way.

Wardd, why are you so afraid to die? It doesn't sound like you have planned very well for your future, either before or after death. Maybe you should rework your budget and start planning for retirement. It won't be long before somebody finally admits SSI is and always will be a failure. I'm willing to bet that it won't be there when I need it, so I have planned accordingly. I read and understand a lot of my Bible and have a relationship with God and Jesus. If you want to get right down to it, that's the root of all this. People not believing in God and not believing God. People are basically evil, and most people want to believe that people are basically good. When they base all their decisions on a skewed foundation, they cannot make rational choices that will have a satisfactory outcome.

I can't make you make the right choice, you have to do that yourself. If you don't do it yourself, it doesn't count. Charity, Personal Choices, Religion. It's all that way.

Back when my wife was in nursing school, one of her instructors had a sick kid. We did a fundraiser. Quietly. They collected donations from local businesses, (I donated a hog trap of all things, and you wouldn't believe all the interest it generated here in farm country) then they sold raffle tickets for the goods and services donated. They handed that woman a paper bag with $3,800 in it. There were hugs and tears and they could afford to take their daughter to a specialist in Denver. You see, they didn't know what was wrong with her and the Ronald McDonald house couldn't offer boarding to a kid with an unknown sickness. They had travel and lodging money, plus the $3,000 up front that the specialist required. If that was a govt entitlement program, that woman would have missed out on the good will of her neighbors and would have probably thought that her kid deserved a lot more of the "GOVT's Money". We would have missed out on the chance to be better citizens, and the govt would have taxed about $25,000 dollars from us to trade for her vote and keep some for themselves for their good deed.

Pay-as-you-go is really the only answer to the problem. Nothing controls costs like having to dig real money out of your pocket to pay for something. That's not a very realistic option for health care, but as long as we try to stay as close to that as possible, there is some small chance of controlling costs.

I don't suppose you think selling your soul or your vote is a high price to pay for something free. It's obvious neither is very valuable to you.

Lance.

 

salt you obviously didn't read what i wrote very carefully

 

You keep calling it a public option. That doesn't make it real or right or what is really being proposed.

You can call it the "Monkeys flying out my butt" option if you want, I don't care. It's a huge step further into socialism. It will cost more, it will have more fraud, it will have consequences that are the opposite of what you want.

Food is more important to sustaining life on a daily basis, why don't you demand that? Or water? Even more important. I don't hear you screaming because your water bill is too high, that you want the govt to tax everybody so you can have a cheap (or none at all) water bill. Why? Because you'd look like a f-ing idiot. You've heard this crap so much, you fail to realize how ridiculous it is and you find yourself repeating it.

Lance

 

Just thinking on what you just said.
300 million of us in the U.S.
1% is 3 million. They pay `40% of all the taxes. That's a whopping bunch of money for 3 million people to pay out for taxes as well as employ nearly all the employed people in America.
The 'filthy Rich' are paying way more than their fair share using those numbers.
When you add in all the cost's the 'Filthy Rich' absorb they are paying way more than you could imagine.

That's the good part about our Graduated income tax schedule.
It allows the 'Filthy Rich' to hire help (wages) and purchase goods to use along the way to making all their Riches. That put's innumerable people to work.
A smart man wouldn't let the Government touch anything that works so well and is so successful for so long.

Here's a little logic for all the stupid socialists out there buying into Obama's castigation of the Filth Rich.
EVERY Job in America comes directly from the Filthy Rich!
All you wannabee Communists ought to be very very grateful for the guy who gambled his house and future to make a better life for himself.
Because along the way he had to hire you to do some work for him!

You could break those numbers down; Homemakers, Prisoners, homeless, elderly, illegal aliens, East Indians, dependents etc; to the point that about 2/3rds of the remaining 300 million are paying 60% of the taxes.
That breaks down even further on a scale. Some pay more etc.
It don't matter. What you have so far in the numbers posted make Obama's lies a complex maze of hiding the Salami.

The best guy to read on these kinds of numbers (Demographics) is Herb Meyer. He was a Reaganite and he's predicted nearly everything that's happened as far as people movements.

I don't think the apathetic socialists will like what I just said. But I don't think any one of the Sheeple can put up a logical argument to what I said either.

 

Thudpucker, that's some pretty good thinking for a 'Bama boy. Where are you originally from?

Just kidding. I know they just don't put your best and brightest fellow 'tiders on TV.

Thanks for the back-up and for the heads-up on another conservative thinker to study. (Herb Meyer)

Lance.

 

LOL, I spent 30 years in AK. We get a lot of time to think up there.

One of the really great things that most people never think of when Alaska comes up is the kind of tourists, and traveling executives we get up there.

Traveling by air is normal. Getting stuck in small airports is normal too. We get some peculiar weather patterns and some plane accidents that keep us grounded in some of the weirdest places.

When your stuck in the airport at Shemya (island way out past ADAK, near ATTU) I was rubbing elbows with Physicists, engineers, scientists of all kinds as well as doctors and lawyers and one time a Judge.

Imagine some guy who spent his whole working life driving a Truck. He'd never have the chance to meet those kind of folks.
That poor Trucker is stuck listening to the Radio, TV or News papers for his Political and scientific information.
Eyeball to eyeball with the movers and shakers you escape all the patent BS they feed the Sheeple.

That kind of ignorance of the facts causes the attitude of Fear the Sheeple have toward pursuing the truth.

Apathy is another problem with the Sheeple. They might be shocked at the behavior of their politicians, but they wont do anything about it.

The Sheeple numbers are growing, and the thinking numbers are shrinking.

 

Thanks guys. It's heartening to know we still have Americans in America. Thud, when did you leave Shemya?

That's the R/V Tiglax.
From a 17 ft. Achilles inflatable.
9,000 Miles the other direction.

At Attu. Can't locate one at Shemya.

 

As soon as I could get inside the plane!

I started going out to the chain about '72' and my last trip was in '93'.
That time Reeve broke the tail of the plane out in ATTU was some time in the 80's.
You must have been there or you wouldn't know about the place.

 

I stopped by there some times in the 90's. You wanted to get out / I loved the aleutians like nothing else. The difference is, with the exception of a few crab years in the eighties, I was never there in the winter.

 

Wardd, please point out errors in accuracy. If you read the bill you will find I was quite accurate. Nor are there any contradictions. As far as the government health plan killing the senior citizens?? First, health care delayed by bureaucrat gate keepers amounts to health care denied. People will die waiting. Second, as I pointed out, acutarial charts will be used to determine eligibility for certain treatments.

 

the insurance companys are already doing that and have been for a long time

seniors already have medicare and i havent heard about medicare killing anyone

and the insurance companys tell you which doctors you can see, which meds they will pay for and which treatments they will pay for and if you have a prexisting condition forget it

those are some of the problems the public option will address

as the bill hasnt gone to conference so what you read now may not even be in the final bill so i wouldnt get too excited yet

its called an option for a reason, dont want it dont enroll