My objections to Zero's new Health care plan.

did i say dems or did i say progressives and i included a couple republicans that did some progressive things

 

Hi All

I'm Australian and we got universal FREE health care in the 70s. My Dad was dropped from his bed by the nurse and ruptured his spleen, dead in 10 minutes, can't sue the government mate.

My Mom got lung cancer and refused to go back to the hospital that killed her husband, died in bad pain, nice.

If you get sick in Aus and have $ you get on the next plain to the US,

All you folks that want your Uncle Sam to run health care, just ask yourself if you were very sick and had $ which country would run too for care. England, Italy, France, Canada, not a chance


And since when is profit a bad thing, Doctors get more $ than plumbers, do you want a plumber doing brain surgery on you, I want the BEST not some half wit that works in the DMV.

It's not a perfect system but it's the best on the planet and if you can't see that for god sake don't go to sea in a boat, cause your LOST already.

Brad

 

Amen to that!

 

Masalai, I think your off on a tangent here.
I read that link. That guy is really scratching to make a living as a writer. Not much to what he says, except he took a slap at people who became succusful within the Capitalistic Republic and left him behind.

As far as American Health care system being the best, just look at all the brightest of the foreign Med. students flocking to our univirsities.

They come for the money certainly, but they can treat as well as the patient can afford here. Not so in some other countries such as Canada.

I say our Health care is the cheapest because we get the best, and the best is a bit more expensive. But its the best we can have, so it's pretty cheap.

Your worried about the people who lost their insurance because of Factory closings.
That's not part of the expense of health care. I don't see where you can say I'm Bullshitting you either. You should explain that one.

Stick to the truth, facts, such as if you cannot afford it, you don't get it. Of course if you cannot afford it, it's really expensive eh?

Here's a short story on Americans and the Capitalistic Republic.

We give everybody the opportunity to go to school free. At the end of the free school, they are supposed to graduate, diploma in hand, ready to enter the Capitalistic Republic as a Contributor.

As a Contributor, your supposed to provide your own health care, and retirement benefits.
You are supposed to understand our way of life. Make your own way. And pay as you go for all you want and can afford.

The word "Infrastructure" was never meant to include the un-employable's, under achievers, indolent, the illegal's and anybody else who made some stupid decisions and wound up begging.

For people who lost it all when the job ran out, we have un-employment compensation for a year. With extensions, it can go on longer. That's enough to buy health insurance if you lost it all.

I think your complaints are made in ignorance. With a good measure of sympathy for the people who were not responsible enough to prepare for the worst.

Americans even have a Check book or the invalids and those poor unfortunate souls suffering from Birth Defects etc.
We'll even include the Druggies who burnt their brains on drugs (another example of stupid decisions) and those who drank and smoked etc.

Americans enjoy the very best health care in the world, and its the Cheapest when you compare the quality, and convenience to those rationing lines in the socialist country's.

 

yup all schools are equal in quality

i say let the bankers that made all those bad decisions should go hang

any family should be able to live like royalty on unemployment

at least for the 26 weeks it lasts

 

Jimbo, Thanks, Everyone should watch to the John Stossel link, don't hide from the truth cause the truth has a ring to it if you listen.

 

Wardd, will you admit to being a socialist? "cuz that's what you are, buddy. It's very telling when someone spends all their time touting government control/ownership of industry/services, but won't admit to being a socialist.

Alexander Fraser Tyler said about the Athenian democracy: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship.

We are there now. The debt clock shows additional debt from the stimulus package that will equal more than I make in a year for each U.S. citizen. Because we tax one group to pay for another group's benefits rather than letting them pay for it out of earnings from their investments, we already have promises equal to $500,000 per U.S. household. I can't pay that much in taxes in my lifetime, can you?

How much more is the new plan going to cost us?

Actions have consequences. You are voting for MY money to be given to you. Socialist politicians are promising you things you have not earned in exchange for your vote and they are paying for it with my (MY) money.

There are only two possibilities: You are stupid or you are corrupt.

Which is it?

 

i do believe in the social contract and the commons

and we've been deeper in debt in the past, say during ww2

i dont want whats yours, but i dont want you to have more because of privilege and special influence

im not touting gov ownership but a level playing field and the playing field hasnt been level sense regan

wouldnt it be nice if the rules applied to all

sense bush that paragon of socialism decided to give trillions to the bankers, profit has be privatised and risk socialized for those at the top

it was warren buffet that said he paid a smaller percentage in taxes than his secretary, is that fair?

i want someone to look me in the eye and tell me that in america today the rules apply equally to all regardless of financial standing, i need a good laugh

im a small business owner struggling to survive because im not too big to fail

something is very awry when when those at the top get the benefits of socialism and those at the bottom get the benefits of true capitalism

it would seem that some think that 17th-18th century england was the ideal society

say didn't we fight a revolution because of that?

and im tired of hearing that the rich create jobs, when it consumer demand that creates jobs, no demand no jobs, if it were different then why arnt the rich creating jobs now, when we really need them?

 

I'm going to need to see some background on your WWII debt claim. Sounds like BS to me.

They always promise to take from the rich and give to the poor. They end up taking from the middle class and giving to the bums.

I don't make much money and neither does my wife, but by driving paid-for old cars and living in a not-quite-big-enough house, we manage to have decent health insurance. People driving 800 dollar-a-month cars (plus insurance) and living in a $2000/month house telling me I have to help pay for their health care. It makes me hostile.

No person should vote for another to have to pay their bills.....it's stealing as surely as if it was taken by force.....which it was.

Make your choices about how you live and then live with the consequences. If you want the privileges of the rich, then go get rich. Work more, harder, smarter, whatever. Don't steal it. If you are going to steal from me, at least grow some nuts and try to steal it from me face to face, not by voting for socialism.

Thank you for making my point. I asked you if you would admit to being the socialist you are, and you dodged answering by saying you believe in the "social contract and the commons". What a cowardly cop-out answer. You know damn well that socialism is stealing. You vote for it, but call it euphemisms because you aren't man enough to call it what it is.

Either nut up and be a proud socialist, or gain enough wisdom to recognize that this is the wrong track we are on and help reverse this deadly trend. Our leaders must quit selling votes and balance our budgets and deal with our debt before we are owned completely by our enemies.

We need less govt control, not more. We need to stop financing terrorism and then trying to fight it. We need more refineries and more domestic oil production and we need to stop buying one drop of middle east oil. That'll put over a billion dollars a day back into our economy. We need to let Detriot build the cars that people want without Washington interference. Govt. micromanagement is killing this country, and you want to give them more power?

If it won't grow our economy, don't f-ing vote for it. Otherwise, you're just a schmuck who has fallen for the class-envy rhetoric and is using his vote to empower people who will take something from you when they finish with me.

 

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I didn't know that a nebulous concept called 'consumer demand' ever signed any checks, or built a factory or invented anything. That statement is just moronic.

Jimbo

 

Really,, funny when I get sick I jump on a plane to Aus --Sidney actually Royal Price Albert Hospital, private and expensive --just how I like it.

Its about 1 third the cost of private in Uk with much thicker carpet. If I use government health care and I can being a Pom --and get this, if I say Im a tourist I get it for free and jump to the front of the que. Don't belive me? the Hopital administrator tore up a bill in front of me as I was counting out 100 dollar bills. Reciprocal Agreement with UK.

Dont get sick,-- eat yoghurt and dont get into a death bed, thats a sure bad thing.

 

i have no issue with wealth, i have an issue with wealth made through seeking privilege and special favors at the expense of the rest of us. the bankers we just bailed out are now back to paying themselves billions, i know youll say but they're making profits but would they have been around to make those profits without the bailout or that the idea is out that no matter what they do they cant be allowed to fail so the party goes on

i doubt that most here disagreeing with me havent been hurt one way or by manipulation of the markets

the big guys have computer networks that can buy hold and sell on the markets in fractions of a second using mathematical algorithms no human intervention required. without access to those kind of resources all the smaller players are only feeding money into the system for the big players, its sorta like the casinos they dont want to take your money too quickly they want you to keep on playing

the current economic system has periodic crash built into it

when money has a tendinsy to flow in one direction that is not sustainable, its like a boat with a leak eventually the water has to be put back in the ocean (circulation) or the boat sinks

i believe in a graduated tax system not an oppressive tax system

i also believe that at certain times people do need help

and whats with this tirade against the public option, dosnt anybody understand what option means, dont want it dont take it

its only the best care if you have access to it

i have no problem with the concept of taxes as long as there is value recieved, say if my taxes would go up $1 but save me $2 in the long term because the health insurance companies would have to look over their shoulder at the public option, then i say raise my taxes

 

The national health care plan as proposed is a disaster. It amounts to those who work paying for those who don't, period. It will be based on a dumbed down, enforced mediocrity of health care deliverery. Those who are healthy and take care of themselves will pay the same rates as an obese, drug addict in order for the system to have enough money to work. Services will be decided by a gate keeper. Services will be rationed, so health care delayed will equal health care denied. Costs will decrease somewhat as folks die waiting to be treated. Actuarial charts will be used to determine life value vs treatment, (euthanasia). You will have no say in the make up of your health plan. You will have no say in your choice of doctors or hospitals. You will have no say in your choice of medications. You will have no say in anything regarding your own health other than to not accept treatment when you are ill. Nor will you have any say in the amount of money that will be stolen from you to pay for this disaster. You will be forced out of your current plan regardless of what they say now. The system cannot work if there is competition from private industry. Everyone must pay an equally exhorbitant amount (except for those who are not working and getting free care now) or the system won't have enough funding. What you have earned in your life, and what you have produced will have no bearing on the type of care you will be eligible for. We will all be equally taken in an equaly shoddy manner. Welcome to socialism, Obama style!

 

in this short missive there are way too many contradictions and factual errors to count

and you left out that the government will kill the elderly

 

Frosty ,
Good job Mate, you prove my point, you flee the public system your country ruined, Aussie DR's in the 60 went to England to become specialist's but not now cause no innovations happen in the UK except for losers like Frosty, a typical WPB, that are specialist at mooching on the backs of others, your mum must be so proud.



The so called Rich in the USA the top 1% of income pay 39% of all the income tax, the playing field is not level, if it was the bottom 40% would pay something and not just TAKE a check and ***** it's not enough.

Latest IRS # by the way, all you commies that can read should look it up.

Brad