my new 14 ft lund project any ideas

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Dudepal, Dec 5, 2013.

  1. Dudepal
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 14
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Middleburg fl

    Dudepal Junior Member

    So this is what i got
    1967-1974 14ft Lund ( needs paint in and out )
    A 2002 Honda bf8a ( runs strong but no pee )
    The ob needs the thermostat cleaned / changed
    But i want you guys thoughts on how i should build it. I will be using
    it on black creek in fl i just do catch and release so i don't need a live well but i would like a built in cooler/seat i could build let me know what u think
     

    Attached Files:

  2. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 3,131
    Likes: 296, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1279
    Location: Lakeland Fl USA

    messabout Senior Member

    Outboard is more likely in need of a water pump impeller and possibly the housing, not just a thermostat.

    Take the top off the middle seat and build a cooler box between the rails. Actually two cooler boxes. Each alongside the center seat brace. Make them fit nicely but remain removable for cleaning. Some foam sheets and fiberglass will make the job fairly straight forward. If I was doing this I'd use Klegacel or a similar structural foam.
     
  3. Dudepal
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 14
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Middleburg fl

    Dudepal Junior Member

    That's a really good idea about the cooler and the guy i got the ob from said he just had it done a few months back but he ran it in salt water and then let it sit but it runs really good and u can feel it sucking water but none comes out
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 479, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Agreed, replace the pump, not just the impeller. You've liked cooked it and the housing is glazed up, probably warped too. It's easy, though you will need to buy a shop manual (about $30 bucks). Also flush out the cooling system, in case you've got some impeller bits jammed in there (common). It's best to use a shop vac and suck through the system backwards, to remove blockages and impeller bits. It only takes a few seconds of dry running time to kill an impeller and only a few minutes of dry running time to cook a pump housing.

    A beer cooler under one seat (the biggest, if it was my boat) and a wet well under the other, maybe for bait, possibly with an aerator to keep things healthy.
     
  5. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 3,131
    Likes: 296, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1279
    Location: Lakeland Fl USA

    messabout Senior Member

    Do be sure that the water pump is working perfectly or you will damage a nice little engine in an all too expensive way. Because the guy said he had it done does not make it so.

    When an OB sits up for a while, sometimes the water pump impeller gets stiff or even brittle and loses its ability to do what it is designed to do.
     
  6. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 9,655
    Likes: 846, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I recently ran a motor that had been idle for several years, water did not appear from the tell-tale, so I shut it down, presuming the impellor is shot. But I then checked the rubber hose that runs from the block, and found insects had made a home out of it, it was completely blocked with gunk. Ran again and water shooting out strongly, but I'll be checking the pump before running the engine again. Not the first time wasps or whatever had done that to one I owned.
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 479, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I've seen this problem too, usually with what we call mud daubers (a wasp I think). An impeller is considered a "consumable" item on an outboard, just like an air filter on your car. It doesn't have to be used to die. On any newly purchased used outboard, this is something that should be replaced as a matter of course, just to be on a level playing field.
     
  8. SukiSolo
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 1,270
    Likes: 25, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 271
    Location: Hampshire UK

    SukiSolo Senior Member

    If you don't have a tell-tale (water spurt coming out) it is not at all uncommon for insects to have made part of the tubing 'home'. One little dodge which also tends to clear odd bits of weed and rubbish is to poke a strimmer line up the orifice and wiggle it. It works best if there is a small ammount of water coming through. I tend to use Ø2mm blue strimmer line on our small from 2 to 10 hp outboards and it has worked well. Remove and repeat until tell-tale is normal. Reversing into a silt or mud bank or reeds can clog the orifice too.

    You should be OK running the motor for up to a minute or so at idle without cooking it if it is cool temperature. Enough to get a tell-tale if in water.
    We often test for starting problems and other engine faults that have been fixed by running for a few seconds completely dry on land. No harm will be done if a very short run and you KNOW there is some lube in the impellor housing. If its a dry impellor housing it will be torn to shreds pretty fast as PAR says.

    In my experience the impellor is one of the most overlooked parts, it MUST be changed on an annual basis if you want reliability. If sea water is left in the cooling passageways it is even more important to clean them out with fresh. The polymer impellors can seize in their housing and shred with old age and corrossion. Use a really good tight fit socket when undoing the impellor housing or you risk burring the bolt heads....

    I can assure you most small outboard impellors after 5 or 6 years lack of use are like disintegrating dust on removal. Sometimes you may be left searching for the 'keyway' to orientate it on the shaft. The small Mariners with the short round pin are the worst for that. Keep a look out for that keyway, different designs are used by different manyfacturers. Take it apart on a clean floor not outside on the grass or you will never find the thing again.

    BTW it is worth changing the gearbox oil too as that will most likely be contaminated. Even if clear, I'll bet it has a 'haze' most likely milky, to it - water in the oil.
     
  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 479, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    No you will not be able to run the engine, even for a few seconds on a dry impeller, without destroying it, unless you've just changed the impeller and the housing is full of grease. Personally, I wouldn't trust this, though a few seconds with a freshly greased impeller, might survive. This is the only occasion I can think of, when an impeller might have "lube" on it, as once it's functioning, it'll wipe off anything inside the housing pretty darn quick. I've changed impellers after the owner has run "just a few seconds" dry and the impeller is trashed, without exception, in every case.
     
  10. SukiSolo
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 1,270
    Likes: 25, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 271
    Location: Hampshire UK

    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Cheers PAR, but we haven't wrecked one yet!. No I would not run one totally dry, no water, no grease either.

    Your advice is best for safety's sake without doubt. Water counts as lube... have taken apart a few after said short runs (max 10 secs usually just 2 or 3) and no damage (identical to not run in 'dry' mode ones) but we change every year anyway, without fail. Never had one go down on us yet because of this preventative maintenance. I'll bet the ones you had to change were run by an owner who really did have it dry. Most times we do it as soon as the engine has come off the water, in this case a freshwater lake. So there is definitely still water in the system around the impellor. Usually to check we have sorted a problem. Last one was a Mariner 3.3 2 stroke (cycle) and the plug was intermittent. Sometimes a carb strip for muck or gunge on the mixture screw from all the additives in unleaded fuel ie poor or non existant idle.

    I should also make clear that I am refering only to the straight sided polymer impellors used on small outboards.

    In all instances where the motor is totally dry you should not run the engine or you will risk wrecking the impellor. On one that has stood for a couple of years (dry), I would say you WILL wreck the impellor. Hope we agree there.


    Now Yamaha 40 gearbox selectors and reverse dogs.....
    or Mariner 25 4 stroke with magnets from inside the flywheel flying out...ahhh
     
  11. Dudepal
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 14
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Middleburg fl

    Dudepal Junior Member

    I found a good manual on the app scribe for free and I'm feeling good about it so I'm gonna check the pump the thermostat look for bugs. I'm good with cars new to boats :) might start work on the transome and seat/cooler/bait well/live well am going to have a belge pump to drain all the water so i don't have to make them removeable

    Ill post pics and keep u guys updated
     
  12. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 479, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    We're in agreement Suki, I just don't recommend any dry starts to novices. You R&R impeller at the same interval I do . . . they're just too cheap and easy to install to trust them for very long.
     
  13. Dudepal
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 14
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Middleburg fl

    Dudepal Junior Member

    Ii read somewhere that spraying a little wd-40 in the carb after it has been drained helps keep it from sticking is that true
     
  14. SukiSolo
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 1,270
    Likes: 25, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 271
    Location: Hampshire UK

    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Cheers PAR. I think the impellors are made of a soft - Shore 30 or 40(?) grade Polyurethane. It would make sense as it is robust and very tough and pretty impervious to chemicals. Tougher than steel in a lot of applications, have used it inside a coin sorting machine where the coins would go through 18 SWG 1.2mm steel in less than 6 months. The Polyurethane equivalent gives 6+ years service.

    The common tiller extension joints (on small dinghies) are polyurethane and prone to suddenly cracking and failure.

    Echo the maintenance, even more important on the sea but useful anywhere as you get to check silly stuff like fishing line inboard of Prop etc, state of shear pin etc etc.

    Spot on advice to beginners though PAR. Guess I cut my teeth on motorcycle engines and they are closer to marine units than cars generally, other than the transmission.
     

  15. Dudepal
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 14
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Middleburg fl

    Dudepal Junior Member

    ok....

    So i took off the intake and the thermostat is bad lots of corrosion had to beat it lose with a brass bar and a dead blow 1 lb hammer and like 1 hour to get it to come off this weekend buying the parts
     

    Attached Files:

Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.