My first boat building project! The adventure begins !

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Vulkyn, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    For epoxy filler did you ever consider saving some of your sawdust in buckets?
     
  2. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Fine sawdust and varnish always worked like a charm. Seems like sawdust and epoxy would be a winning combo as well.

    cheers
     
  3. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: Roaring Forties

    JosephT Senior Member

    That looks like a pretty nice boat. They are light and easy to transport. I am now building a large 30ft voyageur canoe that I designed (cedar strip). It can handle a minimum crew of 2 or seat up to 15. You will find larger groups of people have fun on the water (lots of talking/conversations) in these larger boats. This makes river expeditions fun. On longer trips 2 people often run out of things to talk about. The larger canoes are the solution to that. All you need is a light trailer to carry them. They hold a lot of gear.

    Below are some links to these larger canoes to give you an idea of their size.

    http://www.clippercanoes.com/voyage.php
    http://www.voyageurcanoe.com/

    Newfound Boatworks company sells a good DVD that provides an overview of cedar strip construction. I find a couple of their unique construction methods save time.

    http://www.newfound.com/

    If you need any help with boat plans let me know. Because my wife is from Egypt, I will offer to design a canoe of any size (tandem, voyageur) for you at no cost. Send me PM if you are interested.

    Cheers,

    Joseph
     
  4. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    thx hoyte, good advice i ran into several problems.

    I have gone through local epoxies that where formulated for other tasks than boat building and thanks to some advice from Salway fisher i discovered that the epoxy i was to use is much much weaker, below are the parameters for the epoxy i was going to use:

    Compressive strength: 12,300 psi (boat epoxy) vs 10,960 psi (local brand)
    Flexural strength: 14,900 psi (boat epoxy) vs 3660 psi (local brand)
    Tensile strength: 8,800 psi vs (boat epoxy) vs 3010 psi (local brand)

    i was almost going to buy that epoxy as it was MUCH cheaper but these figures mean its a lot more brittle and probably will have problems with heavy stress cycles as opposed to the more flexible boat epoxy.
    It did seem too brittle on a sample i did when i tried to sand it tiny pieces broke off.

    So i am still in search of another epoxy alternative.
    The 2nd problem is the tools, prices are stupidly expensive, a cordless basic drill is around 200$, so getting the basic, saw, drill etc.. is around 700$ ! instead i got a small fishing boat started in a small yard for 820$ and what i have learned here is helping me guide the builder to getting a good boat built.

    I will still build my boat but ill do so over a longer period of time as i gather the tools.
    --------

    Joseph thanks a lot for your help ! great links and info :D
     
  5. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Maybe a non-electric drill would help you meet your needs.:
     

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  6. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Errr yah .... thats a bright idea :p ... well did some more digging electric saw is around 300$.
    Another snag i am facing is epoxy and plywood. West system is around 1000$ for 30 liters (which is about the quantity i need for the od16) and 6mm marine plywood grade CC is around 100$ per sheet.

    So i either go ultra cheap on tools, epoxy (use local brand) and birch finish plywood or i move things back.
    According to my calculations should i use west system and marine plywood the od16 is going to cost me some 5500 - 6000$ not including tools.
    However should i go local epoxy and birch plywood i can bring the boat down to 2000 - 3000 $.

    So i recon my first boat at 700-800 $ is my first go.

    My friend who wanted the canoe has backed off again so im scrapping that idea as i am not into rivers or canoeing.
     
  7. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

  8. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

  9. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    You can turn smaller drill bits with this.:
     

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  10. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    Good to know Great Neck Tools are still in business: I have one of their planes - nicely made
     
  11. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    vulkyn,

    You could make your own wood cutting tools from scrap metal. All primative cultures made their own tools as well as their boats. You just need to get creative on finding the right kind of "scarp" to make them from. Make a simple adz and a plane from a sharpened scrap and a block of wood. than gather up drift wood from the beaches, and have at it. Will not cost you a thing.

    Personally I would use the local suppliers and adjust your design accordingly for the added strength if it is really necessary.
     
  12. cthippo
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    Location: Bellingham WA

    cthippo Senior Member

    Look on eBay for places that ship to Egypt? I buy stuff on there form overseas all the time. Everything is made in China these days and a lot of times you can order it direct from the factory.
     
  13. Vulkyn
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    I hear such contradiction when it comes to things like birch finland plywood, some people say it will break down very quickly others say its acceptable and some think it works only above waterline.
    The sheets are also smaller 1.4 x 1.4 meters meaning more butt plugs.
    So i am using weaker wood that might rot and is heavier + weaker epoxy would i be risking too much in doing so?

    i could also switch to strip planking, that would eliminate the wood problem as i can get better wood. (yes i have 2 plans 1 S&G and one strip planking).
    I would need additional cutting tools though. Since its my first build and my first wood work i was hoping to decease the unknown variables.

    I will search through ebay cheers :)
     
  14. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    My thoughts FWTAW:

    Birch ply is very strong, at least as strong as marine plywood from regular wood types.

    Birch has a reputation of rotting faster than some woods, that’s a problem for a boat that will stay in the water for extended periods, not a problem for a boat that is hauled out after every trip especially if it is well sealed. But no seal is perfect.

    Birch ply may not be available in the optimum thickness for the design of your choice, and it's heavier than common (in NA) marine ply like okoume.

    The extra joints due to the smaller sheet size are only a problem if they are not as strong as they need to be. However, if any of the joints are weak it’s a problem! The issue is really just the inconvenience of making more joints and ensuring they are located so they do not interfere with construction.

    If you go with a strip plank boat you must glass it on both sides, involving extra epoxy as well as glass and associated cost and weight. A S&G ply boat does not really need glassing unless it is used hard. Long trips with the boat constantly in the water, rocky shores, hauling over pebbles, white water justify glassing. However if not glassed, the seams should have glass tape.
     

  15. Vulkyn
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    Location: Egypt

    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Thats very helpful Ancient, so birch is a go for the boat.
    I have gone through the OD16 and its more of a compistie construction than S&G (according to beatue) http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=OD16
    So i still need glassing + fiberglass.
    The area that i deploy the boat is relatively shallow and rock filled, maybe i can add a PUR paint layer for better abrasion resistance and decrease on the fiber-layers?


    I checked with the epoxy supplier and they do offer a stronger and more flexible material, however its not pure epoxy its a Polyurethane & Epoxy compound.
    There is another epoxy manufacturer that will send me their epoxy data-sheets next week, maybe its closer to marine epoxy.
     
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