MX Next-new dinghy design

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,654
    Likes: 326, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    MX Next

    ===============
    I think this comment is incorrect to the point of being silly. I've watched the video a number of times and at no time was the boat "ploughing". Wave piercing bows work on this type of mono at least as well as on a cat. I completely disagree with your assessment-made as it was with ZERO experience in sailing the boat. Such "definitive" critical comments seem way out of place about a boat that is under development and that you have not sailed. Further, instead of approaching the subject with a negative attitude ,you could have posed reasonable questions to Vlad and that probably would have allowed a decent discussion. But like so many, you approach the subject with derogatory words and useless comparisons based on no two boat sailing -and again, based on your total lack of experience sailing an MX Next. Because of your approach, your comments don't seem valid to me at all-they are an attempt to ridicule something you know nothing about-a very unfortunate way to start a "discussion".
    ================
    For ANYONE to compare this boat to an IC that has a sliding seat is just plain unfair and wrong. This is a hiking boat and shouldn't be compared to sliding seat boats or trapeze boats unless and until it beats them.
     
  2. Andy
    Joined: Aug 2003
    Posts: 268
    Likes: 9, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Edinburgh

    Andy Senior Member

    Still not answering the question as to how exactly I'm wrong. Tell you what Doug, there are various times when the boat's bow goes down in the videos and the boat visibly slows. It's called PLOUGHING. If you'd ever sailed a boat that's done it you would know. I video'd the Mustos sailing in much more gnarly conditions and the bow was up, boats flying. If you want 2 boat sailing, you get Vlad to bring it up here this summer and I'll line it up against a Musto Skiff, and RS700, an AC and an IC. You tell me how my physics is wrong boy. I just saw on the SA forum that Steve Clarke has called this boat out for what it is as well.

    This boat is still all hype and very little substance. The MXray was slower than a Laser round the course, and a boat that only reaches is like downhill skiing without having a chairlift to get you back up again. How is it that Vlad is ok to post nonsense about how he is revolutionising yacht design without 2 boat testing and yet others aren't? Going to have to do better Doug.
     
  3. Andy
    Joined: Aug 2003
    Posts: 268
    Likes: 9, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Edinburgh

    Andy Senior Member

    PS if you know so much about it, enlighten us. Like I asked before. Just WHY is this boat and this designer going to lead the way for every other dinghy design??? What are the features that mean it can defeat the laws of physics?
     
  4. Andy
    Joined: Aug 2003
    Posts: 268
    Likes: 9, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Edinburgh

    Andy Senior Member

    Please qualify.
     
  5. CT 249
    Joined: Dec 2004
    Posts: 1,701
    Likes: 79, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 467
    Location: Sydney Australia

    CT 249 Senior Member

    Doug, you say;

    "I completely disagree with your assessment-made as it was with ZERO experience in sailing the boat"

    and

    "you approach the subject with derogatory words and useless comparisons based on no two boat sailing -and again, based on your total lack of experience sailing an MX Next";

    and

    "(posters) feel unleashed to make completely uninformed comments about a boat they have NEVER SAILED. I'm sick of the self-righteous BS spouted by people who have never sailed this boat..."

    How can you feel so strongly that a person's right to comment about a boat is related to their experience actually sailing that boat, when you spend so much time commenting about boats you have not sailed yourself?

    To use just one example, how could you criticise Andy for commenting about the MXNext because he has never sailed the MXNext, when you criticised Mothies so strongly for not using more wing buoyancy when you have never sailed a foiling Moth?
     
  6. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,654
    Likes: 326, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ===================
    But I did sail a bi-foiler and multi foiler(a lot) and realized from that experience and model testing that wing buoyancy was real important-particularly for a Peoples Foiler. I've had -and had then- lots of foiling and foiler design experience thanks to Dr. Bradfield. I was well qualified to make foiler and foiling related comments. A, has no such experience with the MX Next which even he admits is not designed like most other dinghies/skiffs.
    ====
    And I, in no way, questioned his right to comment, I said that if he wanted answers or a discusion approaching the designer with derogatory, uninformed ridicule was not a good way to go about it. This isn't SA and that kind of BS is not appropriate on this forum-particularly if you want answers to your questions or to have a discussion. You're entitled to your opinion, but not to your own "facts". And rude, aggressive, SA behaviour will go NOWHERE on this forum.
     
  7. Andy
    Joined: Aug 2003
    Posts: 268
    Likes: 9, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Edinburgh

    Andy Senior Member

    And you have experience of sailing which high performance dinghies??? You've still not answered any of my questions.
     
  8. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,654
    Likes: 326, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =============
    Thats a great example of your negative approach to any sort of discussion. That is no question-it is an aggressive, ugly, uninformed, and deliberately rude statement. It guarantees, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there will be no discussion with you whatsoever.

    ------------
    for reference check out "fd sailor" on SA=andy here-calls the MX "daft" here: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=65915&page=28#entry4177390
     
  9. Southern Cross
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 155
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: So. CA

    Southern Cross Senior Member

    I speak for myself but I'm sure its probably true for many others, that I am a sailboat junky waiting for the next big thing to hit the streets. I want the next big thing that's going to give me that rush, that high. Who doesn't want to see it, feel it, live it?

    I think it's more of a matter of promising to have the best junk on the street but not delivering. What you have here is a bunch of junkies jonesing for a fix.
     
  10. Vlad M
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 100
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 68
    Location: Boston, MA

    Vlad M Senior Member

    If you seriously trying to understand mxNext/SpeedDream concept, check out our blog:
    http://speeddreamblog.blogspot.com/

    Scroll down - there's a lot of good stuff there presented in a form that everybody could understand.
     
  11. Vlad M
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 100
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 68
    Location: Boston, MA

    Vlad M Senior Member

    No need to feel for Steve Clarke, Phil Morrison and others. They are designers and they could dig mxNext design idea. Negativity comes only from non-professionals who simply cannot grasp our beautiful and elegant concept.
     
  12. Vlad M
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 100
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 68
    Location: Boston, MA

    Vlad M Senior Member

    You either watched the wrong video or you don't know the meaning of the words you are using.
    "Ploughing through... the waves..."
    Have you actually meant to say "Slicing effortlessly"? Big difference!
     
  13. Andy
    Joined: Aug 2003
    Posts: 268
    Likes: 9, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Edinburgh

    Andy Senior Member

    Ok. At c.a. 40 seconds, the bow goes down, the boat slows and starts to plough. Doesn't look effortless to me. Maybe the smaller waves, yes. But like I originally said, those are really actually very small waves. Any reason you didn't use the kite? And I don't understand yacht design how? Neither of you has answered that. Doug has done his usual ducking of questions though under the pretense that he feels aggrieved somehow (probably because someone has a different opinion to his own).

    Doug, I don't have a negative approach to any form of discussion until I lose patience. In this and the other MX thread I have asked for answers about the boats asking what most people would say were well informed questions, only to be met with derision from you and Vlad, probably because those questions didn't sit very comfortably with the phenomenal amount of hype that MX produces. You could both have simply and efficiently answered them, with straight answers. But instead you always go straight on the defensive, and I apologise if I lose patience but as Southern Cross says above we are all after answers. You can't put stuff into the public domain like this and expect people to take it all hook, line and sinker, and then say "I could care less about impressing this audience, and if people are not impressed by something impressive - that's their problem. All I'm doing is trying new things nobody though of before and most people thought impossible - and usually making them work. It amazes me why some people on this forum are so against it?". The court of public opinion is not a small one, and perhaps you should spend less time making claims and more time producing results people can have confidence in? Getting out next to an International Canoe or Musto Skiff would be a start. Most dinghy designers don't need to prove their boats this way because they don't make any claims about being anything - the boats do the proving on the water. As soon as you say you are revolutionising the sport, the world will want proof, otherwise it's tantamount to false advertising and people will never be cool with that.

    It's notable that on every forum I've visited the same comments are being made by others too, and the negative ones are growing daily. It is, of course, up to you Vlad to decide whether you want to tackle that with straight answers or hope it quietly goes away.
     
  14. Andy
    Joined: Aug 2003
    Posts: 268
    Likes: 9, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Edinburgh

    Andy Senior Member

    Btw Vlad you obviously haven't read Steve's comments on SA. He explains in detail why he thinks this boat is neither revolutionary and also why an IC will be faster round a course (except possibly reaching)
     

  15. Vlad M
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 100
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 68
    Location: Boston, MA

    Vlad M Senior Member

    You haven't read my entire on-line conversation with Steve.
    Steve is a designer and he obviously understands and appreciates mxRay/mxNext innovation even if occasionally he makes some biased comments -only natural for a competitor.
    Actions speak louder than words - Vanguard ended up with several designs that follow in the wake of mxRay - imitation is the most sincere form of flattery...

    As usual, you took a small snippet of information and interpret in your own way.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.