MX Next-new dinghy design

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Here is a new dinghy design by Vlad Murnikov-designer of the MX-Ray and Speed Dream. Comparision of the design specs of the MX-Ray and the new boat follow:
    website(new)- www.mxspeeddream.com

    ------MX Next------MX Ray
    ===================
    LOA- 14'4"---------12'11"
    Beam-3'------------5'
    Beam Overall-6'6"---5'
    Beam,WL-1'9"-------2'3"
    SA main-110sq.ft.---84sq.ft.
    SA asy-110sq.ft.----110sq.ft.
    Rigged Weight-90lb--140lb.
    Crew Weight-180lb--180lb.
    Displ.-270lb.--------320lb.
    SA/D*-1.62----------1.34
    Displ/WL*-.45--------.53
    LWL/BWL-8.2-------5.9

    *I'm not familiar with this method of calculation, for those used to the calculation of DLR and SA/D as per Eric Sponbergs "Design Ratios" (see pdf below), here are the results for both boats. (SA/D main only) :
    MX RAY-
    a. DLR(smaller better)= 66.3
    b. SA/D(higher better)=28.71
    ------
    MX Next
    a. DLR=40.77
    b. SA/D= 42.1

    click-
     

    Attached Files:

    1 person likes this.
  2. maxstaylock
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    maxstaylock Junior Member

    Wings don't look as if they go forward enough at b max, to hike the bow down, upwind, in hight mode. Looks like it will be only able to reach around, as fast as a slow cat, and do nothing else. Can't wait to see any 'Speed Dream' project hit the water, and start proving their epic claims, but at the moment, I am thinking, if they are right, then EVERYBODY else is wrong.

    So, can I just publish a rendering, with no detail, of a boat I say I can build for 45Kg, with no details on design, construction, sails or foils, that looks like an IC will whack around the course, and expect everyone to hail me as a genius, for such a breakthrough design?
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    MX Next

    ============
    Sure you can but you may not be hailed as a genius until at least 25-30 years after your revolutionary mono beats its first beachcat. Oh, and Vlad has a bit of design cred you may not have......
    The Moth proved conclusively what kind of tech it takes to be the fastest dinghy(mono or cat) under 20 feet and Vlad does not use that technology in the MX-Next. I wish he would.
     
  4. sean9c
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    sean9c Senior Member

    What classifies Murnikov as a genius? Can you explain what he's done that was a success?
     
  5. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Well, he did design the most uncompetitive Whitbread Maxi of all time. That has to count for something?
     
  6. maxstaylock
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    maxstaylock Junior Member

    Apart from Drum, Martella, Movistar, etc, but yes, I know what you mean. Skips book was very entertaining. He said Fazisi was not even slightly an IOR maxi, as designed. Much hacksawing and a hand me down keel later, she measured. Still, looked cool, and the deck practically cleaned itself...
     
  7. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    I take it you understood my comment as tongue-in-cheek.

    Haven't read Skip's book. Drum wasn't so bad. Didn't she finish 3rd Maxi (just behind near sister Lion NZ)?

    I was nearly involved with the Drum campaign. Simon was shopping for a designer and I might have been working on the project if the contract went the right way. But then Colt Cars project funding fell apart and that half finished boat became available. So LeBonBon went that way instead of doing a new design.
     
  8. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    Max, so let us see your rendering please.
     
  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Mx

    According to "Race to Freedom" by Vlad Murnikov, Fazisi was 11th overall out of 23 in the 1989-'90 Whitbread. They had the second fastest one day run in the race.
    Vlads book "Race to Freedom" is an exciting tale of an almost impossible dream.
    What he and his team accomplished in the face of incredible adversity is fantastic!
    Vlads little MX Ray was the first production singlehander with an asymmetric spinnaker. Whether the guys a "genius" or not he is an accomplished designer with a whole lot of talent and the guts and courage to get things done. I never said he was a genius but I wouldn't be surprised.....

    From the forward in the book William F. Schanen, Editor and Publisher of SAILING magazine:

    " The Soviet Union of the late 1980's, where corporate sponsors, up-to-date- yacht building technology and experienced offshore sailors were foreign concepts, was one of the most frustrating places on earth from which to mount a Whitbread challenge. Though the collapse of the Communist Empire was underway, the political atmosphere was far from favorable for such a decidedly captilistic endeavor. Even as the FAZISI project began its shaky progress, Vlad felt the pressure of a system that once required him to design sailboats in secret for fear of being prosecuted for the economic crime of carrying on private business. The dearth of offshore experience amon FAZISI's crew was a residue of government restrictions on ocean sailing designed to prevent Soviet citizens from sailing away to freer shores."
     
  10. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Well, you said he was a genius. Now you are saying maybe he isn't?

    With all his talent and guts and courage and ability to "get things done" he designed Fasizi (that was slow and didn't measure in), the MX Ray, and what, one twenty-something-foot sportboat that never went into full production.

    That's the output of an accomplished designer over 25 years?

    Vlad may be a very nice man, and a man with lots of "different" ideas. But I would hesitate calling him a genius, and "accomplished" designer may be a bit of a stretch...
     
  11. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

  12. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    What's the point of seeing Max's rendering? A rendering doesn't prove anything. Max doesn't seem to be saying that he is a designer of similar craft. All he's pointing out is that many outstanding designers or design teams have created dinghy designs that are aimed at the same slot as the MX Next, and none of them has created something like it.

    Therefore someone is wrong - why should it be the very experienced people behind boats like ICs, 700s, MPSs etc?

    We know what happens in the real world of high performance singlehanded monos, and that they demand great attention paid to the issues like sufficient dynamic stability to get around the course, and sufficiently balanced dynamic lift etc to keep the bow up downwind.
     
  13. maxstaylock
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    maxstaylock Junior Member

    Sorry, am not smart enough to design a boat. But I do enjoy racing quick boats, and would love to see genuine development take off in SH mono's, the MPS is more than 10 years old.

    My point is, this is a fantastic period of sail boat design. Canoes and A Class just keep getting better and better. Moths are crazy good, and the first genuinely new thing in sailing for many decades (first competitive hydro course racing boat). Props to the Hydroptre guys, 1000 miles from land at warp speed, brilliant. Some flying keel monos kicking about, along with DSS, may be the way of the future of larger monos. And with the wing mast AC 72's, and cats back in the games, the future of multis looks epic. Not forgetting, of course, all the weird and wonderful european lake boats, home of the extreme.

    Just saying, would love to see Vlad actually design a competitive racing boat, equal or better than any of the above existing boats, then come along here and share his thought process. Take David Raison, learned how to sail boats fast, plugged away in a shed for a couple of years building a genuine breakthrough boat, within the bounds of a practical established class (mini), developed it, raced it, and won. A tremendous achievement. The same story is occuring in many different classes, all the time. The sport moves forward. The most successful get, what, a trophy, a page in Seahorse, maybe a successful business, and an opportunity to improve the kit we all get to benefit from. This is the natural selection of boat designs and designers, in action.

    So with so much good stuff happening why should these pages be filled with pointless renderings of un-realistic, computer aided doodles? Until the speed dream project can get a boat on the water, that can either A. win a class in the Bol d'or, B. get a speed record or C. bring high performance/useability to the masses, I will keep it on ignore.

    Sorry for the rant, nothing personal.
     
  14. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Just relax, it is another break-through... rendering. On of 1,000,000 around :D
     

  15. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    MX-Next

    ====================
    This is a design forum and stuff like what Vlad has done may result in a tremendous new boat-or not. I'd much rather see the idea as it progresses from a rendering to a boat(if it does) than see nothing until the boat is sailing.
    I thank Vlad and the others, like Hugh Welbourn, who give us glimpses of what they're thinking ahead of a finished boat-I think it's great!
     
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