Multihulls with interior design in Herreshoff style...

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Skip JayR, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. Skip JayR
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    Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

    Hi, folks !

    ... I suppose some of you know "Herreshoff".

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    Mostly we remember this name linked with Nathanael Greene Herreshoff (1848–1938). He was an American naval architect and mechanical engineer... producing undefeated America's Cup defenders between 1893-1920. Here the beautifully Westward.
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    In 1971, A. Sidney DeWolf Herreshoff and Rebecca Chase Herreshoff founded the Herreshoff Marine Museum to preserve and perpetuate the unique accomplishments of the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company.

    In Bristol, Rhode Island even exist a broker specialized 100% in Herreshoff Yachts.

    Still exists the company Herreshoff Designs, Inc under leadership of Halsey Herreshoff and Adam Langerman.

    This company names as "perfect designed boats" which had been drafted from 1871 on... e.g. 37 ft. sloop Shadow and in 1880 the "The Perfect Model". The name seems programm.
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    End of introduction...

    Actually I found an interesting multihull where the owner describes the Interior as "Herreshoff style". Here some snaps of a boat which was built more than 15 years ago in such style. - Is the owner right ?

    saloon...
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    Navi...
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    galley...
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    I ask my self: What is this specific Herreshoff style looking like ? - Any ideas about the parameters to define it concretly ?

    Tks in advance.
     
  2. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Looks like a Walter Green tri to me Skip. Influenced by Newick with a dash of yankee sensibility... maybe that is the link but I think the simplicity is more L. Francis
     
  3. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    There's not much of a hint of the Herreshoff style in than cabin. Capt. Nat was known for lightweight accommodations, relatively simple shapes and treatments and of course the raised panel look.

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    This would be a typical, luxury Herreshoff cabin.

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    This is the 40' Albacore's galley.

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    This is LFH's ideas for a simple man's accommodations. LFH was more simple and basic than the "old man", but both prefered simple, clean shapes and materials, with Capt. Nat and the HMC built yachts employing raised panels a lot.

    The plywood and trim interior of the multihull don't even come close, by my eye.
     
  4. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Well the ply is there for a reason. Light and strong, the interior is bonded into the hull providing structural stiffness and strength. More aircraft than yacht, natural finish could have brought some contrast to the cabinetry but it is clean and functional. Solid wood interiors belong on solid wood boats for weight reasons.
     
  5. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I understand the need for the interior used on the multihull, but this wasn't the question.

    With some study of the many surviving examples of all the Herreshoffs, a certain style can be derived, though typically the "Herreshoff style" thing is meant to reflect what the HMC did with their yachts. LFH had a different style than his father and one Capt. Nat wasn't particularly fond of either, though LFH was capable of drawing up in the HMC tradition.
     
  6. Barra
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    Barra Junior Member

    Herreshoff style refers to the white painted interior with varnished trim and deck beams.
     
  7. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Captain Nat wrote that multis (well, cats at least) should have no cabin and should just use a tent for accomodation, so a Herreshoff style multi interior would look sort of like this, and cost several times more than craft from other builders;:D
    [​IMG]

    Interesting info about the raised panels, Par; I hadn't picked that as a Herreshoff speciality.
     
  8. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The "Herreshoff style" is more than white paint and varnished trim, as this is the way most boats are done. The HMC built to a "style book" which included beadboard, wainscotting and raised panels. Look at the interior of any of the HMC yachts and this style continuously repeats. There are other HMC details, such as carved cove board treatments, handrail dimensions, scantling rules, etc. There are lots of surviving examples of these boats, which are considerably different than LFH's accommodations details. Again, in terms of the original question posed, there is no Herreshoff style in that multi.
     
  9. Skip JayR
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    Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

    Yankee... doodle donkey...

    I appreciate your sharp eyes.... What do you mean with "Yankee s....". As European I like the American boatbuilding style of monohulls... mostly they have middle cockpit and very roomy. Is that Yankee style ?? :)

    Hm... Lewis Francis Herreshoff (1890-1972)...
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    He wrote different books, e.g. The Common Sense of Yacht Designand wrote articles in the series 'How To Build' in the magazine The Rudder. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Francis_Herreshoff )

    It was before my own time... :) should take a look into these publishings to get a more clear understanding.
    ---

    P.S. A short amusement for weekend pleasure...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljYswxCMkdI
     
  10. Skip JayR
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    Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

    Herreshoff or not.. this is the question.

    PAR... I appreciate your critical approach to my question.... seems you went deeply into the world of "herreshoff design". Great !
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I met the "old man" as I was a young man. He was ungodly arrogant, though restrained, clearly brilliant and knowledgeable, soft spoken and a unique, hard to figure out wit. I didn't speak to him much, as he had no time for an upstart punk like me, but he was well regarded by those that knew him and respected by those that didn't, simply by his volume of fine work. He died a few years after I met him.
     
  12. Skip JayR
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    Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

    Tradition of Herreshoff...

    It is not untypically, that outstanding people with "radical methods" demonstrate kind of "arrogance". Mostly it is self protection as such people have many enemies, till they become famous (as they are not understood) and while they are famous (because of jealousity)...

    Rarely such people - who are in the focus of public - demonstrate their whole personality. If you meet such people in private life (or at least in a privately moment) they can be very kind and "normal people" (Rec.: I say this as I know it from interviews as radio journalist with top artists.)

    Anyhow... great you got the chance to meet this naval architect personally.

    I lurked around little bit because of curiousity and have noticed, that you keep your own "external designs" little bit in the tradition of Herreshoff, right ? (see attached thumbs)

    I like the filigranity of your rig and sails plans. Very beautiful. Where are your boats being built ? I suppose not many boat builders can realize your projects anymore, isnt ?
     

    Attached Files:

  13. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Yankee sensibility refers to the simple, practical approach, a nod to New England traditions.

    The interior shown has what amounts to box beams running fore and aft along the sheer, this with the cabin roof beams will help reduce headstay sag.

    The Gougeon boat building book has a good section on using interior structure to reinforce the boat.

    The Herreshoff reference really sounds like a broker looking for a sales angle. Understandable since performance tris with small interiors have a small market.
     
  14. PAR
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    There are no box beams in either of the NGH interiors shown above, nor the LFH cabin. Both Capt. Nat and the son treated the hull as a big box beam, with the deck and deck structures being the top web, the hull sides and bottom the rest. Since longitudinal stiffness is often key, localize stiffeners are employ, such as a keel, king planks on the deck, etc. most developing into a truss assembly. Both NGH and LFH designed with great care to just what was needed, no more, to save weight. A description of a dismasting on one of LFH's racers said the whole rig (mast and all) just exploded into little bits. This is the epitome of engineering, where the failure rate wasn't in a "weak link" but literally everything was sized appropriately and once this point was reached, everything came apart at once.

    I agree the above description sounds like a broker looking to make a sale.

    Yes, I've studied Herreshoff, it's foolish to not study one of the most prolific and talented yacht designer and builder the world has ever seen. He did over a 1,000 designs, this alone places him in the upper tier. Some of my designs have a Herreshoff feel to them, but not many follow his scantling rules, construction techniques, etc., simply because we have lighter, better ways of doing things now, though I've always enjoyed the raised panel look. Nowadays, I'd use a formed panel over plywood or a cored bulkhead instead, just for the look, but saving a bunch of weight.

    "filigranity" I get caught with the spell checker beast regularly too. I'll assume you meant "flagrantly", which is an interesting word choice. I don't know if I intentionally attempt to emulate HMC or simular, but I'm glad you like it. Currently there are only a 2 Emily Roses under construction, one in France and the other in Pennsylvania. It's not a common yacht type, for plan sales and it was a custom design, so subject to the client's wishes. The counter stern version was for a new client, that was interested, but with these changes. The Discrete design is one of my older ones and many have been built over the years. It's small enough to be a viable homebuild and it's charm is classic. Again, not a big seller for plan sales, but a small niche market that's reliable. If I wanted to move lots of plans, I design a bunch of 100 HP, outboard equipped, 18' center consoles, of course presented with a camo paint job and at least 16 rod holders around the side decks, next to the 8 cup holders.

    Attached is one of the Discrete designs underway. It's a glued lap version and he has the spars built, the deadwood assembly, the rudder and now the hull is planked up.
     

    Attached Files:


  15. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    The box beam reference was for the Greene tri, nothing like that in the other things shown.
     
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