motorsailers vs large tides

Discussion in 'Motorsailers' started by 7/32, Jan 2, 2010.

  1. 7/32
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    7/32 New Member

    Any suggestions on designers of small motorsailers with stock plans (preferably with CNC option for Aluminum). I'm looking for a plan to build a ~40' or less boat that can sit upright when dry. I'm not married to either shoal draft or a deeper keel; but if not shoal draft, then the keel(s) would need to be setup such that the boat can go dry.

    Is this even a possibility with a sailboat? Or am I going to need to look at motor vessels only and not entertain the idea of motorsailers?
     
  2. souljour2000
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    If it were me I'd learn metrics real good and look at a whole bunch of european designs if I wanted a motorsailer under 40' that can sit upright at low tide...try around the Northwest and British Columbia and the Canadian Maritimes (nova scotia,New Brunswick,Newfoundland also..they use motorsailors alot up there as well as in the Great lakes like Superior...pilothouses (and bilge keelers and so forth )just make sense up that way...
     
  3. Scrumble
    Joined: Aug 2008
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    Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia

    Scrumble Oram 46'C MS Builder

    Suggest you have a look at http://boboramdesign.wordpress.com/39-c/
    I realise you are only considering a monohull, however these will motor and sail fast (up to 12Knots with 30 to 40 hp) and they are built for drying out for < AUD150000.

    Regards,
     
  4. souljour2000
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    Location: SW Florida

    souljour2000 Senior Member

    You also might want to consider something like Chris Morejohn's "Hogfish Maximus"....it is a successful larger-scale design from his earlier 32-foot "Hogfish" ..they're both a modified sharpie design ... looks roomy at around this size (I think "Hogfish Maximus" is around 45-46 feet )they're smart-looking...easy to build with ply sections...and can sit upright on a beach practically...then slither away on the incoming tide..(okay... maybe an incoming Spring Tide in the case of the "Hogfish Maximus")
     

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  5. 7/32
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    7/32 New Member

    Thanks so much for the posts. Trying to find the right design for me is proving more challenging than I thought it would be.

    souljour2000: The Hogfish is a very nice looking boat. Did Chris Morejohn design this, or was he the builder? I love how the rudder folds up! But you were right in your first post, I'm going to need a pilothouse. I intended to have my the boat in Kodiak, Alaska eventually. Can be cold. :) And tides can have about a 30ft differential from low to high. Chris is obviously a good sailor, the Hogfish doesn't look like it has a motor.
     
  6. souljour2000
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    7/32...Morejohn is the designer and builder...he was a founding partner of Hell's Bay boatworks here in Florida...at least before they sold the company after bankruptcy or at least some major financial issues...they were building hi-end flats boats and such.
    I am fairly confident that there is a diesel engine in there somewhere or an outboard in a well...It has a large trunk to house the swing keel or centerboard.This allows a boat of even this size (44 + feet I'd say) to beach...I saw some pics of this boat beached somewhere in the Bahamas...pics of beached boats this big are very odd to look at as it not a common sight... can't find that website...His boats are definitely practical-looking and would be enticing for the homebuilder liveaboard-er...good luck with your plans..keep us posted...
     
  7. FAST FRED
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    The Brits are famous for boats with Bilge Keels that can sit on a mooring and stay upright thru many tides all season.

    They even use "mud berths" where the boat is floated to a very shallow spot during a months high tide , and secured for the winter.

    For a cruiser the ability to take the ground with zero effort or hassle is grand.

    There are many places where the deeper waters are "owned" by locals with rental moorings.

    Anchoring inshore is a great advantage , compared to going to an outer harbor.

    Blue Bird of Thorn was one of the "ultimate" expressions of the bilge keel concept and circumnavigated well.

    FF
     
  8. souljour2000
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Seems to me the ability to lay herself on her belly at low tide is certainly a fine feature for a boat to have. I think bilge keelers or boats which can "tripod" really reap benefits from being able to dry out for a few hours every day...seems it might allow bottom paints/barrier coats to last longer and less blisters to form ....on GRP hulls at least...I'm pretty sure wooden boats are able to tighten up their seams a bit each day this way as well. "Beach-ability" is of course it's own reward for those not wanting to drag around a dinghy so the benefits of these designs cannot be easily overlooked for the cruiser/weekender crowd.
     
  9. 7/32
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    7/32 New Member

    Has anyone heard much of:
    B & G Yacht Design
    www.yachtdesign.com.au or www.yachtdesign.com.br

    I think they may have had a office in Brazil at one point. They have a couple of multichine aluminum boats with swing keels that look very nice (kiribati 36 and MC 41 SK).

    I'm web-surfing for European designs, but our exchange rate is so screwed. I remember the talking heads on tv laughing about the euro 10 years ago. Not so funny anymore.

    Thanks so much for your input here. There is a wealth of knowledge on this website and if I bite the bullet on this, I'm going to be logged into boatdesign.net 24/7 from there on out.

    thanks again
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    7/32

    You find twin keel, bilge keel, boats all around the tidal coasts of the north sea.

    Mainly in GB, F, NL, D

    http://www.boatshop24.com/

    European boats are quite often much better maintained than US boats, representing a higher value.
    Do´nt forget shipping cost! When a boat does not fit in a 40´standard container, forget about it! (or sail it home)

    The exchange rate is just where it belongs, there is nothing to argue. But be quick, that will change!

    Regards
    Richard
     
  11. FAST FRED
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "When a boat does not fit in a 40´standard container,"

    Its beam is over 7 ft 6 , which is a lot of boats!

    FF
     
  12. souljour2000
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Fast Fred...do you have any pics of "blue-bird of Thorn"..I did a search online but found none...
     
  13. 7/32
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    7/32 New Member

    mud berths

    I have not heard of it called mud berths before, but I have a parcel of land in Alaska that has just such a spot on it. Locals have used this location just as you have described.
     
  14. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    .do you have any pics of "blue-bird of Thorn"..I did a search online but found none...

    Google ,,,,,, "Bluebird of Thorne + boat" lots of info.

    I seem to remember here was a series of discussions on Bilge Keels on this board , and BBoT was mentioned ,use the search function.

    FF
     

  15. souljour2000
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Thanks Fast Fred...that is a nice-looking pilothouse um..ketch? yawl? The single-masted ketch rig further down is very interesting


    here's a link to the site for "Bluebird of Thorne "

    http://www.runningtideyachts.com/monohull/


    there's also some mention of bilge keels on this site: I have been on this site once before ..Kasten has a nice website.

    http://www.kastenmarine.com/roll_attenuation.htm

    It makes me wonder..I'm sure there have been studies done...here's my question:

    Would a "twin-fin " bilge keel on a boat like this counter lee-way better than one single fin-keel that was deeper but of the same wetted surface area as the twin bilge keel if everything else like hull shape/sail plan, rudder etc. is the same??. That seems a simple straightforward question that could be modeled in a basin. The excellent Kasten site addresses roll-attenuation


    Seems to me that the bilge keel might have a sort of "baffles" kind of effect which might really help lessen leeway...it's like the first lee-side fin would get a bite and the one further to windward could hold that track..kinda a booster effect...but I really have no idea...anyone? I just don' think they may get talked about enough...they seem so practical to me...drying out level and partially beaching level are very attractive qualities...then there are the foil considerations and possibilities which seem multi-fold...multi daggerboard possibilities ..etc...
     
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