Motor Sailers by Philip Rhodes & John Alden

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. daysgoneby
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    daysgoneby New Member

  2. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

  3. Saildog007
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    Saildog007 New Member

    Gypsy

    I live in Avon Lake Ohio. My home port is Lorainl Ohio , Spitzer Marinas. Gypsy is alive and well and getting better each year as she is refitted here in Lorain Ohio. Was talking with the owner/sister yesterday. Will post pics as soon as I figure out how to on this site. They don't make it easy.
     
  4. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Welcome to the forums.

    Look forward to seeing the photos. Posting on this site is relatively easy, ...but you may have to wait until you have made X-number of postings, I think?...I don't recall for sure if this is a rule on this forum??

    If you go down below the posting text box, you should find a 'manage attachments'. Click on that and choose the images from your computer you want to post. It will add them as attachments at the end of your text message.

    Also there is a 'paperclip image' in posting message that will allow you to post images within the text you are submitting, and at full size.

    Brian E
     
  5. Boat Design Net Moderator
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    Boat Design Net Moderator Moderator

    If you're typing in the Quick Reply box, click Go Advanced to get the full reply screen, and then Manage Attachments to select photos to attach. A new window will pop up which allows you to select a photo to upload from your computer. And then you can post your reply with the photos attached.

    (You can post photos at any point, but there is a 5 MB total quota until you have 5 posts.)
     
  6. capngil
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    capngil New Member

    1975 John Alden Cutter Ketch MS

    Hello all good to see this thread is still alive and well. I'm sure we all have our opinions of what a good motor sailor should be and dependent of each persons needs, if they were to find it, that would be the best motor sailor for that individual. That said, permit me to share my perfect motor sailor wit you all.

    Pedigree:
    I'll start with what I didn't know until well after I had purchased her. Stella Maris (current name) was built way back in 1075 for Neil Tillotson; the then owner of John Alden Yacht's. Once the lines were put to paper the hull was built at another Tilitoson business called Pearson, yes Pearson became TPI inc., the T. in TPI is for Tillitson. Finally there had to be one more acquisition to complete this very unique vessel so of course Tillitson went for Hodgdon Brothers in Bothbay Maine. Yes, it's true, H.B. became a business of Tillitoson's for a number of years and was acquired to perform all the interior craftsmanship (and what craftsmanship it was) on Mr. T's Yacht then named Explorer. "WOW" came to mind every time I ran into another bit of information regarding Stella's design and build.

    Biased opinions:
    Born and raised in Miami, back in 64, and currently toting a 100 ton Master Captains license I can tell you I have owned more than 16 boats and operated more than I can count. With this understanding, I've come to see that a true motor sailor (like the newer modern versions) need sail as well as motor and do each as efficiently without compromising the other. So, Stella falls in the, "they almost got it right" for a 1975 design. Forgetting about the motoring because the 250 Hp Cat moves her along at 7 knots at 1000 rpm... (when the bottom is clean...lol). Have a need to enter a outgoing channel that rips at 5 knots.... no worries you can still make speed over ground at 7 knots (top end 12) by throttling up. Furthermore, if you are savvy about prop walking her in turns as I am you can manage her in tighter quarter's than most would even dare to try and you even have a newly installed Bow thruster as insurance.

    Returning to the sail aspect, she has a nice sail plan for a motor sailor, albeit it is a short aspect rig; great for the none opening 56ft height bridge around my parts. None the less she will point to wind at just under 43 degrees when you trim her proper, sadly she will crab along due to her shallow draft full length keel while doing so. Fall off to anything more the 48 degrees and she's a joy to sail a bit more and she actually will start to leave other sailboats behind; especially in heavier winds. Don't believe me, well I have raced her in regattas and done well and coming up Feb 10th I'll be racing in the Miami to Cuba regatta... Imagine that a MS in a regatta...lol. Let them go hardcore wet, beat up and tired... I'll go remote control, carpeted, warm, dry and rested; if I get a third or better in class all the better.


    Cons:
    Yes every boat has them, and Stella has them, if your doesn't you don't use it or will find them when you really start to use it. Stella first of all is TOOOOO large. Everything about her is exponentially costly, which you all understand, enough said. Stella's LOA is 68ft, although the draft plans denote 61.5ft as I think they use the LOD? Her beam, no issue, but informative is 16 ft and she weigh's in at a hefty 88000 lbs. She is built for longer distance blue water passages, which I used to do, but no longer applies so, she has outgrown that need as well.

    Ill chime in later as I do like this posting; Motor-sailors are the wave of the future since the mid 80's, just taking every one too long to transition.
     

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  7. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Welcome back Capgil.

    I went back to a few of your earlier postings and found that you had a website with lots of photos, so I thought I might make a link to your site.
    http://www.stellamarischarters.com/

    ...like that clipper bow :cool:
     
  8. capngil
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    capngil New Member

    Thanks Brian, I'm a great sailor, terrible compotor man....lol. Didn't think about a link.. Glad to be back. The restoration pages on that charter site are quite interesting for anyone interested in some what not to do's... smile. As for chartering, never did that, couldn't get myself to have a bunch of strangers sticking gum or cigarette butt in places I would find later.

    be well
    all
     
  9. RHP
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    RHP Senior Member

    Hello Brian,

    I have admired what my wife disrespectfully refers to as the 'green boat' based in Italy for many years. The penny has finally dropped.... is she a Virginia Reel 44? Seven steel yachts were made however this one is of mahogany by a boatyard near Genoa in 1964. She has twin engines (recent 100hp each) and a raised foredeck. Massive cockpit behind the open wheelhouse all at the same deck level without a game fishing lower cockpit right aft. I'm quietly confident she's a previously unpublicised sister?

    Richard
     

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  10. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member


    I just found a better image of the layout plan for the larger Virginia Reel design.
     

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  11. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    She is not the 44,...more likely a version of the 65.
     
  12. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I think that almost every "sailboat" manufactured in the last four decades is a motorsailor. They reach the same or more speed under power than under sail.
     
  13. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    That's no 65', appears to be the 44' with a hard dodger added. As an additional note Richard (Dick) O. Davis was the designer who created the Virginia Reels, as well as other "Rhodes" motorsailers, the 64' La Belle Sole, 98' Fei Seen, and the 122' Sea Star are Davis projects. Davis also designed all the "William Hand" motorsailers.
     
  14. RHP
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    RHP Senior Member

    Hi Tad, Sea Star (oringinally built for Laurance Rockefeller in 1966) renamed Sea Joy and based in Greece. There are very few photos, this is the only (dated) reference I could find; http://astro.temple.edu/~bstavis/pr/sea-star.htm

    Brian, the Italian VR is 44' not 65'. The distinctive bow profile, raised fore deck, superstructure and even hull ports are too similar to be a coincidence. I'm more surprised that a wooden version seems to have been built under the radar of historians as even Mystic Seaport only seem to be aware of the seven steel versions.

    I roughly calculated her mast to be 40' off the deck which limits her sailing ability, in fact the owner didn't even have for's'l, using her as a motor cruiser - the boom was tied down on the wheelhouse top.

    I considered buying her in 2012 but as good as she is a compromise between sail and power, that is also her weakness, she has the running expenses of 2x 100hp diesels and the compromised accommodation of a 1954 designed yacht... try explaining that to your wife who seems to think we can afford an Oyster!

    Is Virginia Reel 65' still active?
    Edit: to answer my own question, in March 2014 she was reported in La Paz, Baja with a retired couple living on board.

    I took the below pictures of the VR44 back in 2012:
     

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  15. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Pardon me for that mistake,...I looked to briefly.
     
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