Moth on Foils: 35.9 knots(41.29 mph)

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Apr 11, 2006.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils! new fleet

    From Composites Manufacturing, March/April 2011:

    The International Yacht Restoration School's newly launched Composites Technology program offers students in-depth instruction in both theory and manufacturing technique. The innovative 9 month program began in September 2010 and is offered at the schools Bristol,R.I. campus according to Henry Elliot an instructor at the school.
    Students in the Composites Technology program are building a fleet of Moths. Once launched, the boats will become available to the public at Sail Newport, a local community sailing center.
     
  2. Doug Lord
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    Moth on Foils!--Stepped Hull

    Here is a French designed Moth with a stepped hull:

    click on image--
     

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  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils!

    from Scuttlebutt tonight: (emphasis DL)

    MOTH NORTH AMERICAN CHAMPIONSHIPS UNDERWAY
    By Chris Eriksen

    In the world of small-boat racing, there are basically two kinds of boats -
    one-design classes and development classes. In a one-design class, each boat
    is made as identical to every other boat as possible so that the competition
    is among skippers and crews. One-design classes are generally controlled by
    strict rules that restrict innovation.

    In development classes, however, while the skill of skippers and crews is
    hugely important, individual innovation is encouraged within the very basic
    rules of the class. An example of this is the International A-class
    catamaran. It basically has four rules limiting overall length, width and
    sail area, but within those rules generally anything goes.

    The International Moth is a long-time development class. Originally created
    in the United States, it combined with a similar Australian boat and became
    a worldwide class. The class saw the development in Switzerland of hiking
    racks or wings that extended the skipper farther outboard for enhanced
    stability, a feature now seen on other development and even one-design
    boats. A one-design variant of a European Moth became the Europe dinghy,
    from 1992 to 2004 the women's single-handed Olympic boat.

    But the introduction of hydrofoils onto the daggerboard and rudder of the
    Moth has revitalized the class. It is now at the very leading edge of
    excitement and challenge in the sport of sailing.
    And Alamitos Bay has
    become a noted center of Moth sailing, hosting this weekend the
    International Moth 2011 North American Championship.

    The regatta starts Friday, June 3, and runs through Sunday, June 5. What it
    lacks in sheer numbers - there ought to be fewer than a dozen boats - they
    more than make up for in intensity. Racing a modern "foiling Moth" is a very
    intricate balancing act. Controlling the set of the sails, angle of the boat
    to the wind and trim of the foils leads to a very fast ride, both upwind and
    downwind - but get any of it wrong and the boat will capsize or pitchpole,
    often spectacularly.
    -- Read on: http://tinyurl.com/3pkt5ry

    * Even website: http://www.abyc.org/event.cfm?id=412
    (sized down gary 6-3-11)

    Click on image(Thierry Martinez):
     

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  4. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    You MUST stop shouting, Doug - it's embarrassing - we all know the foiling Moth is an incredible design, no need to crow.
     
  5. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Chris is a good guy, but there is some hyperbole in his press release.

    ABYC is not a center of Moth activity. I think the last time they had a start in a regatta earlier this year they had about 4 boats. Only one was from ABYC.

    This NAs looks like it is shaping up as a 7 boat fleet, with only one from ABYC.
     

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  6. wet feet
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    wet feet Senior Member

    I would like a bit more information about chronology of wing development on Moths.Where does "Hannibal Crossing the Alps" fit with the Swiss boats?Or Russell Bowler's boat with the nine foot wingspan?That was the boat that caused a beam limitation rule to be added to the few rules then in existence.
     
  7. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Hey Paul, be fair....the fleet grew to 10 starters....:p

    Amazing boats, yes. The future of sailing? Well, in a considerably shorter period simple, cheap classes like the RS Feva and 100 have gone from zero to 40-115 in their nationals. If they keep on growing, the US foilers may even end up being bigger than the '60s design vintage classic Moths......

    WF- who created Hannibal??? Chris Eyre?? I know about Russ' boat and the Austin A40 that played a role in the wing limit, but Hannibal only rings a minor bell.
     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Moth on Foils!

    ------------------
    Foiler Moths have revitalized the Moth class in many areas of the world and continue to draw attention in every venue. The boat is the fastest sailboat under 20' and has begun a revolution in sailboat design that will transform sailing in the years to come with new foiler designs that emphasize ease of sailing, comfort, high performance and user friendliness, etc.
    The bi-foiler configuration was unheard of in successful sailboat design just 12 years ago and now has been proven to be the fastest design configuration for a monohull sailboat-and this is only the begining.
     
  9. wet feet
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    wet feet Senior Member

    Mark Dunlop created Hannibal,he designed and built a few very original Moths over the years and Chris Eyre has described him as having a better understanding of hull shapes than almost anybody else in Moth sailing.Somebody really ought to write the complete history of the class.
     
  10. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Actually, they had an 11th boat that started one race only.

    About half the boats did not complete 20 to 40% of the races.

    This points out the same thing we see at many of the "high performance skiff" regattas out here. Usually almost 50% of the boats are just in survival mode. A number of boats are racing. Only about 10-20% of the boats are actually competing.

    During an I14 Nationals a few years ago I watched some of the crews totally exhausted at the end of their day (not the end of the racing day) due to multiple capsizes and the effort to keep the boats up. I vividly remember one crew returning early to the dinghy ramp, so exhausted they could not do anything but flop onto the dock and lie there while we helped get their boat on the dolly. I felt bad for those guys. They had bitten off a lot more than they could chew.

    The thing that is good to see is when "survivors" come back the next year as "racers". But in a high performance dinghy you have to dedicate a lot of time in the boat to make that happen. Most people don't have the free time and available cash to get into the "competing" category.
     
  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils!

    Short trailer for new film about the most significant new dinghy in the last 100+ years:


    http://vimeo.com/24748463
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  13. petereng
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    petereng Senior Member

    Hi Doug,
    I rarely get involved in political comment, but you must be careful making large statements like "most significant new dinghy in 100 years". The foiling moth represents the pinnackle of a lot of peoples work over the last 50 years. It just becomes possible now due to cumulative and systemic results of political, economic, material, personal endeavours and various other factors that amount to life. There have been many foilers out there since the 60's they just havn't had the home or the purpose to rise to the public level the Moth has achived. The Moth itself is an acheivement but we can acheive more. With the recent Americas Cup exposure of Wings and Cats, a seemingly disconnect with the usual Americas Cup & sailing tradition (if there is in fact an AC tradition) may bode well that Sailing may catch up or finally get in step with technology and modern values. On the 100 year thing if 134 years is close enough Nathanael Hereschoff's catamarans beat all comers in England and the USA. This is by far a more significant vessel than the Moth. It has all the features of a "modern" (vs polynesian cats that have been around for millenia) catamaran with no precedence. It was banned and at that point I think sailing was stunted. Up to that point things were not banned but allowed to develop. Please actually study the history before making statements. I accept some statements made by marketeers, like are being made by the AC45 people with a grain of salt. I forgive marketeers for not doing their research. They live in a world of hype and spin but for us mere mortals I think we can do better. Peter S
     
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils!

    ===============
    Peter, Hereshoffs cat wasn't a dinghy but sure was extraordinary as you say. I think I'll stand by the Moth being the most significant dinghy in the last 100 years.
    While there sure were foilers before the Moth their was never a dinghy foiler that sailed on just two foils successfully around a course. There never was an 11' dinghy that consistently beat every small boat under 20' multi or mono.
    Back to the two foils thing(bi-foiler configuration): I was told by a major innovator in sailing hydrofoils that a two foil foiler would not work in 1998-it did in 1999.
    I think the Moth does deserve this honor because the bi-foiler configuration has opened up a whole new way to sail-and design boats. This configuration is not limited to 11 foot dinghies or 30' dinghies/keelboats or 60' keelboats-we haven't begun to see the potential unleashed by this development. Keelboats on just two foils that use veal heel to develop 40% of their righting moment-not possible before the Moth . Two in-line foils used on a small trimaran or catamaran to lift the main hull early and control the sailing angle and pitch angle is another area of application of the technology.
    It is an extraordinary development whose ramifications are not yet fully appreciated by most sailors or designers.
    100 years is a good round figure that I think really does apply here. And it is significant history that we are lucky enough to see unfolding right before our eyes.
     

  15. petereng
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    petereng Senior Member

    Hi Doug... I shall make political comment even rarer now! On another matter, there was a Moth Analysis article I think by a british tech person and they put a Moth and a dummy in a wind tunnel. I had a copy some time ago but I lost it on an old computer. Do you know where it is or maybe you have a copy? I've searched and searched the internet but can't find it. I may start on a Moth since I have been involved with one over the last few weeks. Doug, I'm one of those characters that over the years have been told by many people various things won't work or are impossible but have made them work. All things are possible except backwards time travel. But I'm very open to be proven wrong on that one. Peter S :) (PS-fwd time travel is possible).
     
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