Moth on Foils: 35.9 knots(41.29 mph)

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Apr 11, 2006.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ====================
    What a ridiculous comment!
    On the back of an existing company--not too cool.......is that the only way they could think of to do it? Is that how you'd do it ,munt?
     
  2. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Another all-consuming, tempest in a tea pot.

    If there's an issue here, Doug, it's Ilett's business and not yours.

    What gives? First you're all worried about the International Moth site being disgraceful and now you're getting all huffy on behalf of a guy who is fully capable of fighting his own battles.
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    In this day and age when some big corporations are ruining the planet and trying
    to kill us in any number of ways it is incumbent on each of us to speak up in defense of doing the right thing-its the princible of the thing! We've all seen instances of this kind of thing-a hamburger joint called Mac Donalds, or "Generally Electric" etc. To see it in such a niche business like this is really sad. Does everybody have to cheat to succeed? Do they think they do?
    This isn't right and it isn't fair.



    -----------------------------
    Disgrace: International Moth site
    --
    Still no credit to John Ilett or Ian Ward as "Hydrofoil Pioneers" as of 6/23/10.....
     
  4. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    You mean you want to be something like Don Quixote, or Batman, or maybe a little bit of both?
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils!---- Kids

    From Scuttlebutt/tinyurl tonight:

    KEEPING KIDS ENGAGED IN THE SPORT
    Students in the International Yacht Restoration School's Composites
    Technology Program, a new nine-month program that begins this September at
    the school's Bristol, RI campus, will learn their craft while building a
    fleet of Moths - a small, high-performance sailboat considered by many to be
    the fastest, most exhilarating dinghy being sailed today. These diminutive
    single-handed boats are no longer than 11 feet in length, but their small
    size belies their power: these fast hydrofoils rise out of the water once
    underway, can travel faster than the wind, and have been clocked at 27
    knots.
    The Moths will be more than an effective teaching tool for students in the
    composites program: IYRS will partner with Sail Newport to bring these
    high-performance dinghies to the public. Once the Moths are completed by
    students they will become part of the Sail Newport fleet and will fill an
    important gap in this public sailing center's existing fleet as an exciting,
    challenging boat for young adult sailors looking for the next step in
    sailing.

    "Our sport does a great job of teaching young kids to sail, but we don't do
    as good a job at keeping those kids engaged in the sport as they grow into
    young adults," said Sail Newport Executive Director Brad Read. "Introducing
    these high-performance, dynamic boats to our sailing population is a perfect
    collaboration between IYRS and Sail Newport. We could not pass up the chance
    to be the end user of these boats - boats I consider to be the most dynamic
    on the planet."
    -- Full report: http://tinyurl.com/2bkluma


    Rohan Veal inspiring some Opti cadets--Click on image:
     

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  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils!-----The Eagle!

    Adam May has done a wing for a Moth and from the looks of it it is an extraordinary job!
    http://foilborne.blogspot.com/

    Note that on the leading edge of the wing it says "Built by the Boatyard at Beer"-couldn't resist-there actually is a Boatyard at Beer: http://www.theboatyardatbeer.com/


    click on image then click on resulting image:
     

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  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils!-----comparision

    It looks like the wing is smaller than a "normal" rig even accounting for the different size of the pictures....

    Pix from blog above:
     

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  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils!------The Wing

    The blog has been updated. The wing has passed the capsize test, the storage and travel test and is actually less area than the "normal" rig. And May is taking it to the Euros which happens pretty soon.
    The wing is a bit heavier than a normal rig but that is actually an advantage for May: since the boat is sailed upwind with veel heel, the CG of the rig is to windward adding to the righting moment.

    http://foilborne.blogspot.com/
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Its started already: some in the Moth class are saying that since The Wing has two elements it is therefore two sails and violates the Moth rules. Give me a break! They don't even know how well it works yet...Maybe they've forgotten or never knew the Ben Hall/wing A Class experience-ya think??
     
  11. Eralnd44
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    Eralnd44 Wanderer

    Aerorig http://www.yachtmonalisa.com/

    Then also is a single sail?

    Makes turns about a single locus, is trimmable indepndent.

    The same is connected?
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils--------The Wing

    --------
    You're saying there is a similarity between the aero rig-which clearly uses two sails -and the wing,right? I don't think The Wing can be divided such that it would function with either element missing and I think the aero rig
    could lose the jib and still function. What do you think?
     
  13. Eralnd44
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    Eralnd44 Wanderer

    it is certain that the wing loses aft section and becomes foil on its own.

    you are knowing this correct?
     
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ===
    I don't think a single element wing would function very well, do you?
    Do you think Mays WING should be banned because of the two elements?
     

  15. tspeer
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    tspeer Senior Member


    I think it's up to the class to determine how to interpret their rules. There's a good case to be made for considering it to be two sails. I see two ways of looking at it.

    If you consider a rig with a mainsail equipped with slides/cars instead of using a groove in the mast for the bolt rope, what you have is a mast,a small gap, and the sail. The wing can be considered topologically equivalent, with the forward element being an enlarged mast and the flap being the mainsail. Structurally, the wing matches the mast/main combination, too, with the main hung from the mast. This also accords well with how the wing is operated, because flap trim is dominant with regard to determining power and heeling moment.

    If you consider a sloop rig, having a two lifting surfaces and a gap between them, then the forward element can be classified as the jib and the flap as the mainsail. In this interpretation, the wing is two sails. Structurally, it has no equivalent in conventional sail rigs. But clearly there are two lifting surfaces, and that is a problem for a class that not only specifies a maximum sail area (like the A and C class cats), but also specifies that the area is to be in one sail.

    A wingsail doesn't have to have a slot, so classifying May's wing as being two sails does not close off development of wingsails for the Moth class. And I do think a wing can operate quite well without a slot.

    More wing rigs have been made for landyachts than all the C-class, A-class, AC boats and Moths combined, so I think that's a good place to look for workable configurations. There are landyachts that sail with a single symmetrical wing and no flap. IIRC Bob Dill's Iron Duck was of this variety, and it held the landsailing world speed record at 116 mph. Until being eclipsed by Richard Jenkins' Greenbird (126 mph), which also has a single symmetrical wing and no flap (although Greenbird also has a tail that only serves as a control surface). Before Iron Duck, the world landsailing speed record was held by Nord Embroden, sailing a Friendship on mast alone (mainsail removed), making it another single element wing rig. Competitive landyachts have also been made with plain flaps that had no slot. Landyacht wingmast/sail rigs commonly have masts that make up a quarter to a third of the total area, and it would be easy to classify them as wings with a fabric plain flap.

    A true wing+flexible flap would be a potent combination. A wing with a rigid plain flap would also be well worth trying. If judged to be two sails, I suspect May will be able to convert his wing to a plain flap.
     
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