Moth on Foils: 35.9 knots(41.29 mph)

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Apr 11, 2006.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils! Dubai Worlds

    As of today:

    1) Si Payne (18)
    2) Funk (20)
    3) Arnaud (24)
    4) Dalton (27)
    5) Amac (34)
    6) Bora (35)
    7) Babbage (37)
    8) Chris Graham (37)
    9) Mike Lennon (41)

    http://www.dosc.ae/moths-entry-list/results/puma-moth-worlds-2010.html
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    I wonder how much effect skipper weight is having,if any? I hope to have more information on this with a comparison of skipper weight from the Gorge of the top ten with a comparison in Dubai of the skipper weights of the top ten.
     
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils!

    Results of Day 4- Bora Gulari is seriously off the pace in these Worlds and AMAC has dropped from a great start on Day 1.On the other hand Brad Funk from the USA seems to be in a position to take the whole shebang-down only three points. It is possible, I guess, that the purported trash in the water is only affecting certain people-sort of "targeted trash":

    http://www.dosc.ae/moths-entry-list/results/puma-moth-worlds-2010.html


    from SA:

    video-watch carefully :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXkLV5p1w6I&feature=player_embedded#

    Correct standings at the end of 4th day of racing with 9 races and 2 throws:
    Simon Payne - 17 points
    Brad Funk -20 points
    Arnaud -20 points
    A Mac - 26 points
    Dalton - 31 points
    Bora - 39 points
    Scott B - 43 points
    Mike Lennon - 43 points
    Chris G - 44 points
    Adam May - 68 points
     
  3. wind_apparent
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    wind_apparent wind driven speed addict

    If it wasn't for that bad "trash" luck and light winds I'm sure Bora would be working the lightweights as usual. Its pretty common knowledge that he's not the lightest guy out there (around 185lb I think). Its also well known that in 15-25 he's easily one of the top 3-4 fastest in the world. Better luck next year, if there is any wind I'm sure he'll be right back in contention. I hope they never host the Moth worlds in that area again, just not good racing conditions for that class I think (no wind, and that chop looked nasty). Bring it back to the gorge where it was fun to watch.
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

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    WA, have you watched the video of the sailing there? The boats are hauling ***. The so-called light air allows boat speed that is a higher multiple of windspeed than stronger winds. And the records I've seen of wind at DUBAI is far from "light" but certainly less wind than the gorge. And "targeted trash" that affects only Bora is the silliest thing I've heard since the last time "targeted trash" was used to knock foilers!
     
  5. wind_apparent
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    wind_apparent wind driven speed addict

    Yes, Doug, I've watched all thats available online......I don't give a crap about higher multiples of windspeed, give me 18kts anyday, most people in my weight range say the same. I'm just bummed that the the Ace isn't getting the conditions he thrives in to bring the pickle dish back home.
     
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ===================
    Too bad for the "Ace"- but good on Brad Funk for being in a position to still take it for the USA!
     

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  7. wind_apparent
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    wind_apparent wind driven speed addict

  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils! weight does matter!

    With all the guys ahead of Bora real "lightweights" we now can say for sure that weight matters in the Moth Class much more so than, apparently, Gulari thought it did last year. In fact, he said it did NOT matter anymore....
    From SA front page:
    With just 6 races to go, the international battle lines have been drawn for the final third of the Puma Moth World Championships. Simon "Slim" Payne leads with 17 points with Brad "Slim" Funk and Arnaud "Slim" Psarofaghis tied on 20, while Andrew "Slim" Mcdougall and Dalton "Slim" Bergan round out the top 5. See a pattern here?

    --------
    From SA:
    This is a good report from the DOSC site. Also interesting is the fact that all the sailors will be weighed today for performance analysis:


    Light winds and lots of low riding
    FRIDAY, MARCH 12, 2010 AT 15:40 | LISA RICHARDS Low riding was the name of the game and the end of racing on Day 4 at the World Championships.

    Race 8 saw a brief postponement while the wind gained strength. 44 boats took to the water to start the first race of the day at 13.30. With a light but steady 7 knots all boats started with 1 OCS. Simon Payne dominated at every mark rounding and across the finish line with superior tactics and speed.

    Race 9 pushed many boats to the limits of light wind sailing with over half the fleet residing to low riding for the majority of the race. Arnaud P took the lead from the start, however AMac took the bullet after out sailing the fleet on his final gybe.

    With only 6 knots of breeze at the start line and tide running at the windward mark the race committee postponed the final race of the day until Saturday.

    Final thought for the day from the fleet statistics

    "When you pool all boats, then there is no correlation between age and performance. But when you do the same correlation by boat design, you’ll find:
    If you ride a MACH 2: The older you are, the better you are ranked (so far)
    If you ride a Bladerider, Fastacraft, Prowler, Fastacraft, etc: The younger you are, the better you are ranked (so far)
    Does that mean that MACH 2 makes older men faster or does it mean that MACH 2 is the faster boat and only older guys can afford it (b/c it’s the most expensive)? Or is MACH 2 the most challenging boat so that you need to be very experienced to be able to sail it properly?"
    ----

    Day 5 from SA today:
    http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=105865

    http://www.dosc.ae/moths-entry-list/results/puma-moth-worlds-2010.html
     
  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils! Bora speaks!

    from pumaoceanracing.com:


    Day 5 Report

    MARCH 12, 2010
    Just six of a maximum scheduled fifteen races remain in the ultra-competitive PUMA Moth World Championship 2010, and 2006 Moth World Champion Simon Payne (GBR) retains a slim lead over Brad Funk (USA) and Arnaud Psarofaghis (SUI). Light and twitchy breeze only allowed starts for two of the scheduled three races today, the first of which started after a short onshore delay to allow the light sea breeze to stabilize - somewhat.

    The first race started in 6-7 knots of wind, and Payne won going away over Australian Master Andrew McDougall. European champ Arnaud Psarofaghis continued his run at the top with a third place. Current Moth World Champ Bora Gulari grabbed fourth and Top US Laser sailor Brad Funk crossed in fifth place, his worst finish since day one. “I still feel fast, but I had a lot of trouble getting off the starting line today,” said Funk. “But my US team mates gave me some good tips this afternoon on how to power up more quickly and get off the line quicker, and I think tomorrow will be a better day.”

    Psarofaghis led nearly the entire way around the course on the second race, with McDougall using his dominating light-air downwind style to take the bullet after rounding the final mark in third. “I’m in a much better mood today,” said McDougall after scoring a 2 and a 1, the best score line on the day. “Last night I did everything I possible could to add power to my sail, as in this wind it is all about grunt, as you saw when I took the lead during the second race by staying up on my foils while everyone else was low-riding.”

    Psarofaghis crossed the line in second, and is now tied for second overall with Funk, who duplicated his race 1 performance with a fifth. Payne scored third, displaying his incredible mental toughness by coming back from an over-early call which called him back to the start line. The Championship leader overhauled most of the fleet by the first bottom mark, and held off Michael Lennon (GBR) for the rest of the race, who finished fourth, moving him into eighth overall. World Champion Gulari (USA) finished tenth after a trying downwind run to the finish, giving him control of sixth place and showing the struggle the champ is facing to match the pace of the lighter sailors ahead of him.
    “Had I realized how light the wind would be here in Dubai, I would have likely trained much differently than i did,” said Gulari, “I definitely wouldn’t have eaten for the past two months!”

    -------
    You went to considerable lengths to tell me that light conditions don't matter any more?!! What gives? What is your assessment of crew weight in the Dubai conditions now? Would foils designed specifically with you in mind for these conditions have made a difference? Would foils with changeable tips(variable area) have helped you to adjust to the conditions better?
     
  10. wind_apparent
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    wind_apparent wind driven speed addict

    How long you going to beat this dead horse? its well known that every boat is effected by crew weight, foils or not. Light sailors go faster with less available pressure but are easily overpowered in heavy air. Heavy guys go slower in the light but have more ballast to harness the power when its blowing dogs off chains. How groundbreaking.

    (do you really think increasing the lift area for light wind will make things faster? I don't think it would be enough to overcome a 35-40lb weight difference. In fact it might increase the drag so much that you can't foil at all)

    Now, I think the best bet for light wind moth venues is to plan a couple months ahead and ingest a tapeworm.
     
  11. bgulari
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    bgulari Junior Member

    Go suck a nut

    I was cruising through here because I am having problems sleeping. It is pretty sweet to have some "expert" talking trash about me in some random place.
    Doug you have no idea of what it is like here. We have not had a race in over ten knots, I would be just fine even at my weight in that wind if it was not for the sea state. The sea state is more appropriate for a place with 20 knots, add in the shitload of power boat chop and there is just not enough power for me to get over any waves, if it was flat I would not have an issue. Simon Payne openly admits that it it is annoying I can get up at the same time as him. So the fact that I am 30 pounds heavier is fine with me because we are not going to come back to a light air choppy worlds for as long as I have a vote, I am on the executive now.

    To the admin seems SA, the same guy talking trash about me demanding responses.

    Bora Gulari

    Doug dont bother replying because I wont be back.

    Thanks to Wind Apparent, Chris, and others for all the kind stuff you guys have done for me, I owe all of you guys a beer. Lots of new stuff I am working on for Belmont, If you wanna hear about it drop me a line sometime this summer.
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

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    Mr. Gulari, I have not "talked trash" about you in any respect whatsoever. In fact I have gone out of my way to congratulate you on every success you have had. The posts are here to prove it. I even asked the forum moderator to honor your GPS speed record by changing the heading of this thread. I quoted your comments and the analysis from SA and pumaoceanracing.
    I did , however, remind you of the significant amount of time that you spent on SA telling me that "weight does not matter anymore".
     
  13. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =====================
    Mr. Gulari, I have honored your accomplishments FAR MORE than I have ever criticized you!!!!! The post you made saying you won't sail in light air anymore deserves criticism -any independent sportswriter worth his or her salt would make a really big deal out of comments like that regarding your sailing-and the attitude revealed by such a comment.
    ---
    Post 892, 8/15/09, "Congratulations to Bora..."
    ---
    Post 906, 9/29/09, "Congratulations to Bora..."
    ---
    Post 907, 10/6/09 "I want.. to ..thank Jeff..." for updating the header of this thread with Boras new speed record.
    ---
    Post 933, 10/30/09, Bora: "Seahorse Sailor of the Month"
    ---
    Post 943, 12/21/09, "Gulari shortlisted as Yachtsman of the year..."
    ---
    Post 968, 1/6/2010, "Gulari wins Rolex", "Yachtsman of the Year"
    ---
    Post 997, 2/23/10 , " Congratulations to Bora" US Nationals
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  14. wind_apparent
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    wind_apparent wind driven speed addict


    Why would he, the main moth class is basically a strict foiling class now, so to hold the worlds in a place that's not very conducive to full on foiling wouldn't make sense. I know that you can't control the weather, but you could make sure to only hold moth worlds at venues known to have favorable conditions and if light air shows up, so be it. But to hold worlds in a place known for that kind of thing ......well, whatever, I'm talking to doug. What am I doing? i haven't done that for months, bad Idea to start now........Go suck a nut.
    (thanks for representin Bora, better luck next year)
     

  15. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Wind, if anybody I ever raced with made a comment like that after performing relatively poorly in light air they would have been laughed out of the club.
    Best stay clear of Neu Aleans and Lake Ponchatrain!


    photo by Chris Cameron:
     

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