Moth on Foils: 35.9 knots(41.29 mph)

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Apr 11, 2006.

  1. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth "crushes" A- Class Catamaran/ Fastest Sailboat Under 20'!

    The Moth foiler and its technology has changed monohull dinghy sailing like no other boat in history! When I was growing up it was a given that a catamaran would beat a monohull. Now, in just a few short years it is the MONOHULL that does the beating! A vision of things to come in larger boats as well.....
    ------
    The worlds fastest singlehander and fastest sailboat of any kind under 20' was backed up by the worlds fastest Moth sailer in the on-going "question" of just how fast is a Moth. Reported first in this thread four years ago when Rohan Veal lined up against a fleet of top A Class Cat sailors and beat them in 5 out of 6 races around a course, now
    Bora Gulari said yesterday:
    (from dinghy Anarchy)

    "Biased but in 10 knots I think a moth would take an a cat uphill and crush downhill.
    I have lined up a couple of times"


    --------------------
    more "evidence" from rft on Dinghy Anarchy:

    "At our Frozen Sheets race on Jan 2nd Mike Lennon sailing his moth off 580 beat a very good F18."

    (first reported three years ago in this thread when Rohan Veal beat a fleet of F18's)

    and(1/18/10) from "Simon N" on Dinghy Anarchy: " Today, I suspect that once up on foils, a Moth will take out both an A class and F18 cat, without too much difficulty."
    -----and 1/21/10 from "WayneMarlow" on DA: Last summer at Datchet UK a pretty good Mothie turned up for the evening race, over about 1 1/2 hours about 5 laps of a trangular course in about 6 - 10 knots of wind. The Moth smoked the cat fleet lapping all but 2 F16's."
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
  4. bistros

    bistros Previous Member

    And the exact opposite would be perfectly true at 5 knots. So what?

    Doug, all this hype and trash talk is just that - trash. Who cares what boat is faster? What does it matter except to statistics freaks living in their Mom's basement. Now we've got multihulled America's Cup boats which can avoid sailing in winds over 15 knots as per the Notice of Race. How would that make the founders of the race series feel? America's Cup series with boats that can't sail with Lasers around beer cans.

    Every boat is capable of delivering thrills to their owners, even Mac 26s and aeroSKIFFs.


    --
    Bill
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils:Fastest sailboat Under 20'!

    Speed and performance of the kind exhibited by the Moth matters to a whole lot of people. It represents a revolutionary new technology for sailing dinghies-and before long to larger boats as well. This thread is proof positive of that -along with Foiler Design- the largest-most widely read-threads on sailing hydrofoils anywhere on any forum. There is no Moth related thread on any forum with the views of "Moth on Foils"-rest assured the technology and the boat and its performance matter big time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
  6. bistros

    bistros Previous Member

    It would be interesting to find out how many people participated as part of the crowd slowing down to watch the ongoing blood spurting, severed limb flailing car crash scene that surrounds you, and how many people were actually interested in foiling. I'd be willing to bet many people were there for the Jerry Springer-esque aspect of Doug Lord than because they were interested in foiling developments.

    Statistics are for statisticians. I prefer sailing.

    --
    Bill
     
  7. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member


    You've been saying this for many years now, Doug. Yet, foiler sales have gone virtually nowhere in that time frame as a commercial product. More O'pen BIC's have been sold by an order of magnitude, yet you continue to ignore that reality. Think maybe the priorities are just a bit skewed there, Doug?




    So, obviously, numbers matter to you... big time. Other than the take is rather Hamfisted American, where bigger is always better, would it bother you, then, to discover that the National Enquirer schlock rag has more readers than does the New York Times?

    Headline tomorrow... "Aliens Ate my Sandwich and Escaped on Foils"


    ;-)
     
  8. Cheesy
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    Cheesy Senior Member

    If you want some real fun have a play with H-infinity control algorithms
     
  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Attached Files:

  10. Munter
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    Munter Amateur

    Doug. You should buy that moth. Consider it a new partnership or collaboration with the best in the business.
     
  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils-Fastest Sailboat Under 20' !

    -----------------
    Thanks for the suggestion,Munter! But I don't want a Moth-I want the easiest to fly foiler under 20'-a Peoples Foiler....
     
  12. bistros

    bistros Previous Member

    Do you really?

    If so, why haven't you built it? I have no idea regarding your financial circumstances, but as you appear to be living indoors with lots of time on your hands, why haven't you done it already?

    Given you appear to have full time access to a computer and the Internet, someone has got to be paying the bills for the important items, leaving you lots of time to get paid to work. Even with an entry level job, you should be able to afford a foiler within a one to two year time frame, given that your basic needs seem to be already under control. If you are working full time already (or providing home care for aging family full time), there is still part time work to help out.

    No one will contest that you have compiled a massive amount of anecdotal information (and digital photos) regarding foilers and associated concepts. Given that information and the community's willingness to help, you should be able to synthesize a product specification and build plan for a foiler optimized to be easy and simple to operate.

    Doug, if making a people's foiler is a major item in your bucket list, why not just stop talking and start doing? I don't understand why you have taken so much crap from so many people for so long, given that the task to design and build a people's foiler is not an insurmountable goal.

    Wind_Apparent is well along the path to building his SR-71 foiler - molds are done and ready to go, rig design and materials are well in hand - and he's got a family, wife & two beautiful kids and has moved and changed jobs in the past year. He moonlighted in a composites shop and found sponsors for materials. You could do the same - perhaps much easier because Colorado isn't the hotbed of boat building and composites that Florida is. Given you've done some composites work on your models, this should be easy for you.

    In all seriousness, what are you waiting for?

    --
    Bill
     
  13. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Moth on Foils-Fastest Sailboat under 20'

    Check out the very interesting hull design by Nick Flutter below-here is his blog URL for more on "aussie flasheart": http://nickflutter.blogspot.com/ Nick once did a rough sketch of a foiling sportboat and posted it here on boatdesign-see it below. Hope he gets to do it one day-this guy has got talent!
     

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  14. waynemarlow
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    waynemarlow Senior Member

    Now Doug there are statistics, more statistics and damn lies. You should have used the entire statement which went onto to say that the conditions were optimum for the foiler and at the worst for the cats ie about 6 - 8 knots and triangular small courses. By editing statements like above you make yourself look a clown at best and at worst a politician of the Tony Blair variety, all spin and no substance.

    As much as I was impressed with the Moth on that nights racing I have also been extremely dissapointed in the way only a dedicated few can sail them well and generally dissapointed at the previous attempts by Mothies to participate in the racing only for them to pull out after the first upwind leg where the cats have been far ahead. On this basis then one could argue the Moths are not doing very well at all.

    Yes I think foiling may well become more fashionable as has kite surfing and windsurfers but the numbers of those are falling fast and unless the Moths become easier to sail then I would suspect that they to will be a passing phase of sailing. Still the foiling scenario does intrigue me.
     

  15. petereng
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    petereng Senior Member

    Moths are restricted in a sense due to the rules about having only two foils. If any of the classes allowed more foils say 3, so effectively removing the stability problem then clearly they will be the evolutionary winner. Hydroptere being the leading case. There are many privately built foilers that have huge potential but can't race to improve the breed as they do not fit into any class rules. There are many aerodynamic and hydrodynamic technologies or strategies that could be adopted in sailing across the board but due to the ethic that we are racing sailors against sailors (so we may as well race logs with bedsheets in the Olympics I think) there has always been a push back against technological change from the establishment in the sailing scene (usual aguement is to control cost, so the establishment have been successful in making sailing the cheapest sport on the planet!! I think not)This is to a degree the same in motorsport and other sports but particularly ingrained in sailing. The recent introduction of box rules has allowed a design growth spurt in sailing which is appreciated and has allowed designers to work with real physics vs artificial formulas. It seems we are obsessed with speed but we should also be concerned with control. There are two areas neglected by sailors control and drag. These are the next major improvement areas. Please lets have some meaningful discussion!
    Peter
     
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