Moth on Foils: 35.9 knots(41.29 mph)

Geez, Doug, that's really neat and all, but my one question would be...

Was the posting for the edification of Magnus... or yourself... since you prefaced the quote with a rather self-aggrandizing bit about your prescient powers?

Randy... Totally brilliant send-up

Doug.. I trust that you will keep us posted on Mothie doings. You let us know when they get to 10,000 units sold and I'll issue an offical, "I wanna be like Hobie", certificate.

This thing about Sailing World and all that goes with it...

Go back and look at the boats that have won that title over the last several years and tell me how many of them are still knocking out the fantastic sales figures that one might project from such an honor. You'll see that our culture is more enthralled with "flavor of the month" involvements than we are with substantive commitment.

 

I hope everyone understands the "nominations" for SW BOTY is a "self nomination". That is, the builders/dealers send in an application and then make their boat available for the SW people to sail at the Boat Show.

http://www.sailingworld.com/article.jsp?ID=42298&typeID=395&catID=687&exclude=

Trying to mislead people into thinking a boat was chosen as sometning special is intellectually dishonest.

 

Moth on Foils /BOTY

"B", you simply don't know what you're posting about.
"The nominating panels will recognize a select list of nominees; only those nominees will move to the judging round." The Bladerider was so nominated.

 

Information on the way nominees are selected can be found at

http://www.sailingworld.com/article.jsp?ID=42299&typeID=395&catID=687&exclude=

The way they put it is;

"What do we need?
For the nomination round this fall, and for the judges' correct understanding of your boat, we're requesting that you supply us with your entry form and as complete a package of supporting materials as you can
compile by June 20, 2006, including:
Sales brochures/buyer's literature
Designer's statement of purpose
DVD or CD with the following in digital format: profile plans (including underbody and keel options), sail plans, accommodations plans, transverse stability curve (IMS method), Hi-resolution photos
Descriptive summary (one paragraph long) of the boat and its intended use."


So do you they just choose the nominess from some study plans and sales material and a brief summary? From the fact that the entry form wants IMS stability, and the fact that the rules say that a builder's rep must be ON BOARD through testing, one wonders how well suited the nomination process is for small dinghies.

 

The whole Blade strategy had escaped me until recently. It seemed to me that a lot of money was being fronted for the production tooling, buying off the best sailors in the Moth Class to be reps, etc. The business model didn't seem to make sense.

With the recent rash of info leaks their gambit is becoming apparent: Become an Olympic Class or Bust!

If they succeed in becoming an Olympic Class it will guarantee a far greater customer base than simply supplying the existing Moth Class. They will either produce all the boats for every country, or will make a good royalty for licensing other builders.

If they don't win an Olympic bid their customer base is very small. If their boat doesn't show itself to be as fast as the existing boats, or if a new, faster Moth comes to the fore, their customer base will evaporate.

It is strange that there is a lot of talk from some people about Olympic status for a boat that may not have even raced yet. Other boats, like the FD, Soling, and 49er, has to go through selection trials against similar designs. Why would this boat not be treated the same way?

 

It would be treated the same. The ISAF would first decide if a foiler should be represented in the olympics and then comes a selection trial where all and any foiler would come.

 

That is good to hear.

Would the Moth class be interested in Olympic status? I know many International Classes are not interested in becoming Olympic Classes.

If the Moth class was not interested would the selection only be between recognized "International" foiler classes? Would someone like Fastacraft be tooling up an "International" non-Moth foiler anytime soon for selection?

 

For Olympic use it would have to be preferable to select a one design in order to prevent an arms race on the technology front.Does anybody dispute that a foiler would be more relevant to top level competition in the 21st century than the collection of relics cited by Magnus Wheatley?

 

Too Late for That

The day that Bladerider decided to enter the I Moth foiling world with their own boat, an arms race was kicked-off on the technology front. You don't really think that a hard working innovator like John Ilett would stand around with his finger in his butt, do you?

 

John Ilett is here to speak for himself with respect to business strategy. For KA Sails, I suspect it doesn't hurt their overall marketing of themselves as a sailmaker, and it gives them a chance to develop relationships in China, where the Bladerider is manufactured, that they may be able to leverage for future manufacturing needs.

 

Transitions... and then what?

I can't answer that one, Wet, but perhaps the same question should be posed for the guys in track and field who toss the hammer or throw the javelin? They seem to be getting on decently with relic hardware.

Perhaps you are suggesting that we should drop the Discus in favor of a high tech, weighted Frisbee in carbon? 2500 years of elemental tradition down the drain in the pursuit of high-tech solutions.

I get that there's new gear in any sport from time to time. The question is... is this the right time? And is this the right sport?

Why are we allowing rifle sports in the Olympics (winter and summer) when we can easily equip a suitable instrument with a light beam projector which fires into a circular, charge coupled device as a target? No real projectiles about which to worry, much less weight to hoist and maintain sight on target... sounds like a real winner to me. Kinda like laser tag with Gold Medals being issued.

How about a virtual swimming pool in which the competitors select their personal electronic signature patterns for various strokes? They jump into a pool with randomly generated turbulence patterns, micro-temperature regions and proximity interference from other swimmer patterns in the same race and have a go for the medals?

If zippy technology is the answer, then why not open the entire Olympic thing like a fish being filleted? Would you tune-in to watch a bunch of folks going at it through video games in the grand tradition of ancient Greek sport?

 

Let's start by admitting that some changes in the Games are needed, and that the foiler Moth is a &^%ing brilliant boat and the Bladerider could be great.

However, there's still several reasons to keep at least some of the "relics" in.

1 - ISAF (or YA? ) surveys have shown that non-sailors do NOT think that sailing is boring. They think it is elitist, expensive and difficult. Making the sport look harder therefore hits it where it is already weak.

Windsurfing chased the "21st century performance" ideal and is now 8% as big as it was when the sport was less performance-oriented and simpler. When the most popular boards could do about 25 knots, they sold 1 million per year. Now that the most popular board can do about 35 knots, they sell 80,000 per year. I don't know how that lesson can be ignored so easily. It has been repeated in many, many other classes. Spectacular speed does NOT increase popularity.

The RSX has a higher top speed than a foiler Moth and yet the class is rumoured to be in the greatest danger of being dumped from the Games. The IMCO board would have a higher top speed (and very light-air speed) than the Moth, yet it got dumped. The RSX Class manager is worried about how to get press coverage. Speed does not guarantee coverage, popularity or success.


2 - As the dropping of the Europe showed, the less-funded countries do not want expensive boats in the Games. The Bladerider would probably not as as expensive as the Europe but the sport can't give two fingers to the poorer countries and then turn around and demand their support to keep the sport in the Games.


3 - If a high-performance image was so important for the sport, why are so few of the high-performance classes strong and growing? The most popular skiff types in the UK are about 30th in the popularity charts, and dropping or holding steady. Many of the slow simple classes are doing very well, despite the efforts of those in the sailing community who insult the boats the whole sport relies on. The big slow boats are doing well in many places, thanks very much.


4 - What is the 21st century? It's looks like it's going to be a place where people are fatter; perhaps work harder and therefore have less time to get expert at sailing and want to hit the water quickly when they can; a time when throwing away resources and materials (ie boats) becomes frowned upon; a world where people may sample more sports rather than become devoted to one, and therefore need to feel that they are "cool" pretty quickly. Joe Average who has never sailed cannot hop aboard a Moth and foil away and feel good. He'll have to sail a "relic" for years while he learns. If you insult his "relic", will he stick with the sport for those years?

What sells a sport to people with (allegedly) short concentration spans and plenty of alternatives? Being told "that foiler is cool but you can't sail it for years, the boat you can sail is a relic" or being told "this is a great fun sport you can get into quickly"? Hell, most people don't need more thrills than a Laser, many club-level Laser sailors are scared enough as it is in a big breeze!


5 - The classes that seem to be growing the strongest include Lasers, Radials, Laser 4.7 (300+ at the worlds!), Optis, F18s, Dragons, Hobie 16s etc. The "relic" Star sells in the same numbers are the 49er does.

We can either protest at this and abuse the boats that are actually PROVEN SUCCESSES (like Magnus does, as if the many thousands of people who chose to sail them are idiots or too scared to change; they are not) or we can adapt and realise that's the way the world is.

In these opening years of the 21st century I'm sailing about 7 classes. Top speed ranges from about 15 knots to about 45 knots. The ones that are suited to these times, as proven by the fact that they are growing well, are the slow and simple ones. The ones that are dropping in numbers or barely hanging on are the faster ones. We may not (or may) like this but it is a fact.

Why don't we stop being so conservative and throw away this decades-old idea that going faster is the best way to attract more people. It's an ancient misconception proven wrong many many times. Why not actually look at the real world and be flexible enough and innovative enough to go with what actually grows and strengthens the sport?

 

So a current windsurfer- one of the fastest boats on the planet- is "only" selling 80,000 a year?? And from that you deduce that speed
does not sell?
Your last paragraph is one of the best twisted "summations" I've read in some time: " stop being so conservative and advocating speed" you make me laugh lawyer......

 

Yes, obviously speed does not sell when boards used to sell 1 million per year when they were slower, and sell only 80,000 now that they are faster.

If speed sells, boards would be more popular now that they are faster. Boards sell less now that they are faster. Obviously therefore speed does not sell.*

How you can look at the massive decline in sales as boards got faster and not see that as damaging to the "speed sells" crowd is beyond me - especially since most of the windsurfing world has woken up to the fact recently. Starboard, Exocet, AHD, Tabou, Mistral, JP and just about every manufacturer has launched new gear designed to work better at low speeds. They have worked out that speed doesn't sell*!

The 18 Foot Skiff guys, fastest of dinghy sailors, worked it out too. Ask Rob Brown, who had the most radical 18 of all.

The last paragraph is not twisted. It is an appeal to recognise that while "speed sells" is an attractive idea that many have held for a long long time, it does not seem to work in practise. We should recognise this fact.

If speed is so important why did you spend so much of your own time sailing boats like Hobie 16s and Windmills? They are nice boats (the Mill 'specially) but not fast, yet you enjoyed them didn't you? You could have been sailing a Tornado or a Suicide but you didn't. Why? Because speed isn't what really matters.

If speed sells, why did the Moth fleets I grew up in die away, to be replaced by slower Lasers? Because speed isn't what really matters.

Oh, and what do you do for a living that makes you so well qualified to comment?



*if that speed comes at too great a cost in other areas.

 

Moth on Foils/ Olympics on Foils

The Moth Foiler has begun a process that will wind up having a extraordinary effect on sailing-a process that is only 7 years old. This technology is one of the most significant things to come along in sailing -it is waay beyond the Moth(and the windsurfer in some respects) because it is not just one boat but a broad ,revolutionary system with applications from boats smaller than a Moth to bigger than Wild Oats.
An Olympic singlehanded foiler(Bladerider, Prowler, M4 or?) should be followed by a doublehanded Olympic Class foiler which would represent a huge technological leap over current Olympic doublehanders- and give more meaning to the Olympic spirit in sailing in a way so eloquently put forward by Magnus Wheatly.
I'm looking forward to the probable next step-a sporboat on foils that will be able to illustrate -like almost nothing else could- the potential of this technology to profoundly influence sailing
for centuries to come...